How can I replace Win-7 video driver with Vista or XP driver?

Discussion in 'alt.windows7.general' started by XP Guy, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. XP Guy

    XP Guy Guest

    I've got a desktop system where the motherboard has Intel 82G965/963
    on-board graphics controller. I've installed both XP and Win-7 on this
    system (but not on the same hard drive). So all I'm saying is that I
    can run either XP or 7 on this system by selecting which drive is
    connected to the system. (this is an experimental industrial / lab
    system).

    This is the 32-bit versions of XP and 7 (not 64 bit).

    There's a 16-bit DOS program that I need to run on the system, and it
    runs just fine in XP. The program runs in full-screen mode (takes over
    the whole screen - it doesn't / can't run in a window).

    The program will not run under win-7, because the win-7 video driver
    won't allow a command-shell to run in full-screen mode. I've messed
    with the file-properies of the 16-bit executable and that doesn't help
    (well, it might help, but it doesn't get me where I need to go).

    Now, I've searched the internet and have played around with wmic and
    have "disabled" the video adapter in the device manager. When I disable
    the video adapter, win-7 reverts to some sort of 800 x 600 VGA mode and
    the DOS program will run ok in full-screen mode. But when I re-enable
    the video adapter, the program won't run - and trying to run cmd from
    the start menu is broken - it doesn't work any more (I think this has
    something to do with the window properties I changes when running wmic).

    Something else that might work is to replace the win-7 video driver with
    either Vista or XP versions - and here is where I'm running into
    problems: How do I force win-7 to use these drivers?

    I downloaded the vista driver for the G965/963 chipset from Intel, but
    the setup program refuses to run (it says wrong OS) and even when I
    unpack the driver package and try to point device manager to "update"
    the driver, it refuses and says I already have the most recent (or most
    appropriate) driver.

    So - is there any way I can force XP to install and use either an XP or
    Vista video driver - so that (theoretically) I can have a true
    full-screen DOS (CMD) mode?
     
    XP Guy, Apr 20, 2012
    #1
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  2. XP Guy

    R. C. White Guest

    Hi, XP Guy.
    WHICH Win7? Home? Professional? Ultimate?

    Sounds like you need Win7's XP Mode. It is free, but can be installed only
    Win7 Pro or Ultimate:
    Install and use Windows XP Mode in Windows 7
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/install-and-use-windows-xp-mode-in-windows-7

    RC
    --
    R. C. White, CPA
    San Marcos, TX

    Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
    Windows Live Mail 2011 (Build 15.4.3555.0308) in Win7 Ultimate x64 SP1


    "XP Guy" wrote in message
    I've got a desktop system where the motherboard has Intel 82G965/963
    on-board graphics controller. I've installed both XP and Win-7 on this
    system (but not on the same hard drive). So all I'm saying is that I
    can run either XP or 7 on this system by selecting which drive is
    connected to the system. (this is an experimental industrial / lab
    system).

    This is the 32-bit versions of XP and 7 (not 64 bit).

    There's a 16-bit DOS program that I need to run on the system, and it
    runs just fine in XP. The program runs in full-screen mode (takes over
    the whole screen - it doesn't / can't run in a window).

    The program will not run under win-7, because the win-7 video driver
    won't allow a command-shell to run in full-screen mode. I've messed
    with the file-properies of the 16-bit executable and that doesn't help
    (well, it might help, but it doesn't get me where I need to go).

    Now, I've searched the internet and have played around with wmic and
    have "disabled" the video adapter in the device manager. When I disable
    the video adapter, win-7 reverts to some sort of 800 x 600 VGA mode and
    the DOS program will run ok in full-screen mode. But when I re-enable
    the video adapter, the program won't run - and trying to run cmd from
    the start menu is broken - it doesn't work any more (I think this has
    something to do with the window properties I changes when running wmic).

    Something else that might work is to replace the win-7 video driver with
    either Vista or XP versions - and here is where I'm running into
    problems: How do I force win-7 to use these drivers?

    I downloaded the vista driver for the G965/963 chipset from Intel, but
    the setup program refuses to run (it says wrong OS) and even when I
    unpack the driver package and try to point device manager to "update"
    the driver, it refuses and says I already have the most recent (or most
    appropriate) driver.

    So - is there any way I can force XP to install and use either an XP or
    Vista video driver - so that (theoretically) I can have a true
    full-screen DOS (CMD) mode?
     
    R. C. White, Apr 20, 2012
    #2
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  3. Alternatively get VMware reader and a paid-for version of XP, if the
    version of Win 7 doesn't allow XP Mode.
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Apr 20, 2012
    #3
  4. XP Guy

    XP Guy Guest

    Does it matter?

    It's from technet. We have all versions. It wouldn't be home version.

    No, I don't want to install XP mode, or VMware.

    The software performs direct hardware access (using porttalk) so I don't
    want to complicate things by running it in a VM (which it probably
    wouldn't run correctly anyways).

    I remember we tried running this in Windows Vista a few years ago and it
    did run just fine - because Vista does (or did) allow full-screen DOS or
    CMD mode.

    So - is there any way I can force XP to install and use either an XP or
    Vista video driver - so that (theoretically) I can have a true
    full-screen DOS (CMD) mode?
     
    XP Guy, Apr 20, 2012
    #4
  5. So - is there any way I can force XP to install and use either an XP or
    Vista video driver - so that (theoretically) I can have a true
    full-screen DOS (CMD) mode?[/QUOTE]

    Assuming you meant "force 7" rather than "force XP" there: I think you
    said earlier that 7 doesn't allow a cmd window to go full screen. If
    this is truly the case (i. e. 7 doesn't allow full-screen CMD), then I
    suspect that just having a driver which might allow it won't help.

    Not that I think it'll help for the above reason, but you did say you
    tried loading the Vista driver but it said you had a more recent one;
    presumably you tried removing the 7 driver (assuming you've got it on a
    disc so you can put it back when the attempt fails)?
     
    J. P. Gilliver (John), Apr 20, 2012
    #5
  6. XP Guy

    SC Tom Guest

    You'll have to uninstall the current Win7 driver first. Reboot, and when the "Found new hardware" comes up, cancel. It
    will probably then leave you with the default VGA driver (this is good). Now you can install the Vista driver (you may
    have to do it in Compatibility mode). I did something similar to this when I had to install an earlier ATI driver on my
    laptop.
    You also might have to either temporarily disable automatic updates, or change it to "notify me when. . ." in order to
    keep it from installing an updated driver over your Vista one. If you choose "notify me. . .", then you can uncheck the
    update, then right-click on it and select "Don't notify me of this driver again."

    One machine I did this on, I had to boot into safe mode to do it all, but I don't remember if that was my Win7 or XP
    machine (I love messing around with various programs and utilities; sometimes it bites me in the ass. Gotta love a
    recent disk image :) )
     
    SC Tom, Apr 20, 2012
    #6
  7. FWIW, I just checked this on my Vista test platform and it did not
    allow full-screen CMD modes, so you'll probably want to go with the XP
    driver.

    --
    Zaphod

    "So [Trillian], two heads is what does it for a girl?"
    "...Anything else [Zaphod]'s got two of?"
    - Arthur Dent
     
    Zaphod Beeblebrox, Apr 20, 2012
    #7
  8. XP Guy

    XP Guy Guest

    Do a google search for this phrase:

    "windows 7" full screen dos mode

    You'll see this is a real behavior or observation.

    In XP, if you open a command shell and hit alt-enter, you'll see that
    the window will open to full-screen. You can't do that with Windows 7.

    I know this did work a few years ago when we tried this on a different
    machine running Vista - but this could very well have been a pre-release
    candidate of Vista.

    I see that this full-screen ability must have been taken away from
    Vista:

    http://www.mydigitallife.info/worka...ot-support-full-screen-mode-in-windows-vista/

    ============
    When you attempt open or run DOS .com applications, .bat batch scripts
    or games that relies on command prompt, and including cmd.exe itself,
    you will encounter the following error message:

    This system does not support fullscreen mode. Choose “Close” to
    terminate the application.

    The lack of support for full screen DOS command prompt in Windows Vista
    is a big annoyance especially for those who still playing games for DOS
    and Windows 3.1/9x era, use legacy software such as WPDOS or programmers
    who frequently switch to command prompt to use DOS based programming
    language such as PASCAL.
    =============

    I'm getting the exact same error message for the 16-bit app I'm trying
    to run under win-7.

    I'll have to try the trick shown on that page to run the Vista video
    driver install program under XP compatibility mode. If the Vista driver
    still won't let me have full-screen mode, then I'll try the XP driver.
    (I don't care if I lose the aero mode).
    I'm not sure how to tell win-7 to "remove" the existing driver (vs
    replace or update the driver). The existing driver must be part of
    win-7 because I didn't have to feed it to win-7 during installation of
    the OS. So it must be part of win-7 core install files.
     
    XP Guy, Apr 20, 2012
    #8
  9. XP Guy

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    The XP driver definitely won't work, the driver model is too different
    between XP and 7. However, the Win7 driver model was first introduced in
    Vista, so that one might work, if you can find a way to uninstall the
    existing Windows 7 driver.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Apr 20, 2012
    #9
  10. XP Guy

    Yousuf Khan Guest

    You seem to distrust virtualization's capabilities. Most of these
    virtualization software will also virtualize the ports and make it look
    like it's running on a bog standard VGA or SVGA adapter of some kind. So
    even direct hardware port accesses are also virtualized. If you got the
    Ultimate or Pro, then go ahead and install the XP Mode on the machine,
    it'll only take up a bit of your time, and you'll never know it works
    until you try it. In fact, running the Sysinfo under my XP Mode, I see
    it sees an S3 Trio video adapter running. My system is actually running
    an AMD Radeon HD 6870, so it's obviously virtualized.

    There's nothing complicated about it, XP Mode doesn't run automatically
    at Windows startup, so it doesn't take up any resources until you click
    on it.

    Yousuf Khan
     
    Yousuf Khan, Apr 20, 2012
    #10
  11. XP Guy

    XP Guy Guest

    The hardware ports belong to a proprietary data-acquisition interface
    card that does not have any windows drivers.

    So unless there's something about virtualization that I don't
    understand, I can't see how my 16-bit app is going to be able to
    directly access the real physical ports through the virtualization
    layer.
    I still don't see how virtualization gets around the full-screen DOS
    issue.

    Even if virtualization allows the program to run in a virtualized
    "full-screen window", the application performs a lot of real-time data
    plotting on screen so I have to wonder about performance.
     
    XP Guy, Apr 20, 2012
    #11
  12. XP Guy

    Ken Blake Guest



    "Force"? You can't force anything like this. Some Vista drivers
    *might* work, but XP drivers never will.
     
    Ken Blake, Apr 20, 2012
    #12
  13. XP Guy

    Tony Guest

    Is that you Steve?

    --
    The Grandmaster of the CyberFROG

    Come get your ticket to CyberFROG city

    Nay, Art thou decideth playeth ye simpleton games. *Some* of us know
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    Bur-ring, i'll get this one: WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM JERK!!? We're here to
    help you dickweed, ok, ok give the power cord the jiggily piggily wiggily
    all the while pushing the power button repeatedly now take everything out
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    the next sucker on the phone.

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    There's the employer and the employee and the FROGGER and the FROGEE,
    which one are you?

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    El-Gonzo Jackson FROGS both me and Chuckcar (I just got EL-FROG-OED!!)

    I hate them both, With useless bogus bullshit you need at least *three*
    fulltime jobs to afford either one of them

    I'm a fulltime text *only* man on usenet now. The rest of the world
    downloads the binary files not me i can't afford thousands of dollars a
    month

    VBB = Volume based billing. How many bytes can we shove down your throat
    and out your arse sir?

    UBB = User based bullFROGGING

    Master Juba was a black man imitating a white man imitating a black man

    Using my technical prowess and computer abilities to answer questions
    beyond the realm of understandability

    Regards Tony... Making usenet better for everyone everyday

    This sig file was compiled via my journeys through usenet
     
    Tony, Apr 20, 2012
    #13
  14. The hardware ports belong to a proprietary data-acquisition interface
    card that does not have any windows drivers.

    So unless there's something about virtualization that I don't
    understand, I can't see how my 16-bit app is going to be able to
    directly access the real physical ports through the virtualization
    layer.
    I still don't see how virtualization gets around the full-screen DOS
    issue.

    Even if virtualization allows the program to run in a virtualized
    "full-screen window", the application performs a lot of real-time data
    plotting on screen so I have to wonder about performance.[/QUOTE]

    Our hardware developers have been moving back to running on the host OS
    instead of in virtual machines after a brief attempt at doing
    everything in a VM and only using the host OS for virtualization for
    these very reasons. Hardware just doesn't behave the same in a virtual
    environment as it does on the host OS.

    --
    Zaphod

    "So [Trillian], two heads is what does it for a girl?"
    "...Anything else [Zaphod]'s got two of?"
    - Arthur Dent
     
    Zaphod Beeblebrox, Apr 20, 2012
    #14
  15. Surely, if the underlying OS doesn't support full-screen (a. k. a.
    character) mode, then no matter whether the driver supports it, you
    won't be able to use it?
     
    J. P. Gilliver (John), Apr 20, 2012
    #15
  16. No he didn't.
    Everything above that you are responding to above was from R. C. White,
    not Gene E. Bloch...

    Well, almost - you did mention (without otherwise quoting me) VMware.

    It's just that I am very modest, so I don't want credit that I don't
    deserve :)
     
    Gene E. Bloch, Apr 20, 2012
    #16

  17. I still run one DOS program and use DOSBox (search for it). It runs DOS
    programs much faster than WinXP Mode or any of the other emulators I
    have tried. You can run DOS program windowed or pretty much full
    screen. You will need to study the ".conf" file and play with it a
    little bit to understand its options. It is worth while for running DOS
    programs.
     
    Bill Bradshaw, Apr 20, 2012
    #17
  18. On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 18:50:52 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
    It is the driver that is the problem, not the underlying OS. I've seen
    where some had success installing the XP video driver in Vista to
    restore that functionality. Also, in the OP, XP Guy said:
    So his test really does show that isn't the OS but the driver that is
    the issue.


    --
    Zaphod

    Adventurer, ex-hippie, good-timer (crook? quite possibly),
    manic self-publicist, terrible bad at personal relationships,
    often thought to be completely out to lunch.
     
    Zaphod Beeblebrox, Apr 20, 2012
    #18
  19. [snip]
    I use DOSBox for running WordStar 2000.

    OP, note that DOSBox is meant for running games. If you use it
    for other than that, you are on your own. This is frequently stated
    by the developers. That caveat stated, DOSBox works fine for me. I
    have used it for several years.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko
     
    Gene Wirchenko, Apr 20, 2012
    #19
  20. Sorry, I hadn't spotted him saying it _did_ run in full-screen mode in
    that mode.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    He spoke in sentences that made up paragraphs, with immaculate grammar and
    punctuation. - Barry Cryer on Clement Freud 1924-2009, in Radio Times, 25 April
    - 1 May 2009.
     
    J. P. Gilliver (John), Apr 20, 2012
    #20
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