Defragging System Volume Information

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

My Windows 7 x64 system has 6 fragmented files totaling 3 GB in the
System Volume Information folder. Neither the included Windows defragger
nor Piriform Defraggler64 will touch them. Does anyone know of a free
utility that will defragment these files? I understand that it will probably
have to be done during startup.

 

[SC Tom]

My Windows 7 x64 system has 6 fragmented files totaling 3 GB in the
System Volume Information folder. Neither the included Windows defragger
nor Piriform Defraggler64 will touch them. Does anyone know of a free
utility that will defragment these files? I understand that it will probably
have to be done during startup.

Auslogics Disk Defrag will take care of it:

http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag/

 

[Paul]

My Windows 7 x64 system has 6 fragmented files totaling 3 GB in the
System Volume Information folder. Neither the included Windows defragger
nor Piriform Defraggler64 will touch them. Does anyone know of a free
utility that will defragment these files? I understand that it will
probably
have to be done during startup.

Just for fun, have you ever tried "Contig" ?

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897428

It meets the dictionary definition of defragmentation, in that
the moved file is no longer fragmented. But the file is just,
more or less, randomly placed on the partition, so it is
more likely that the next file written will be fragmented.
You might easily use "Contig", one file at a time, until
there is no free space suitable for contiguous repositioning.
It only has a fraction of the logic in it that a real
defragmenter uses.

The other nice thing about Contig, is you may be able to
create a list of the files that are fragmented with it. I seem
to remember, it scanned the partition pretty rapidly. It might
even double as a way to create a file list...

******* One entry from the 45MB listing it creates for my C: partition *******

Processing C:\\System Volume Information\_restore{AAB841EA-B06A-40C3-BFFE-A97A5C886FBA}\RP110\snapshot\
_REGISTRY_USER_NTUSER_S-1-5-21-1614895754-179605362-1177238915-1003:

Scanning file...
File size: 5971968 bytes

C:\\System Volume Information\_restore{AAB841EA-B06A-40C3-BFFE-A97A5C886FBA}\RP110\snapshot\
_REGISTRY_USER_NTUSER_S-1-5-21-1614895754-179605362-1177238915-1003 is in 1 fragment

*******************************************************************************

If you take the resultant output file, and in a text editor look
for the word "fragments", that will help you identify all the files
which have more than one fragment. For example, if a file had two
fragments, the output would say "is in 2 fragments".

On Windows 7, you'd likely need to elevate the command, and I'd
expect "more flak" from using it, than I see on WinXP with FAT32.

"Contig" is purely for amusement value. A real defragmenter will spend time
positioning the files in a certain way, which may in the long run
work slightly better. Or the graph at least, will look better.

Paul

 

[VanguardLH]

Auslogics Disk Defrag will take care of it:

http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag/

Depends on WHAT file(s) are not getting defragmented for the OP in his
computer. There are some files that defraggers won't touch.

http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-disk-de-fragmenter.htm?page=2#comment-58982

After reading the following article, it appears those scattered NTFS
files the defraggers wouldn't touch were the $LOGFILE. This file gets
scattered across the OS partition because new blocks get created due to
other files occupying the disk space but these blocks won't coalesce
together later with a defrag.

http://mindprod.com/jgloss/defragger.html

Alas, this doesn't include the Auslogics defragger (that I use). The
article mentions Auslogics but doesn't include it in the feature
comparison chart. It's been too long to remember if this one will move
the $LOGFILE into one contiguous chunk of sectors in the OS partition (I
suspect that it does not hence why I found re-imaging the partition
worked to defrag this part of NTFS).

Although a product may claim it will defrag "system files", that does
not equate to "file system" files. Windows system files are still
system files despite which file system you choose (FAT vs. NTFS).

For a defragmenter to be considered safe, it should use the defrag API
provided by Windows; however, that means files opened for exclusive
access cannot be moved by safe defragger. Some defraggers include a
boot-time defrag operation to run before the files are exclusively
allocated. Auslogics defragger doesn't include a boot-time defragger
(they want you to buy their Bootspeed product for $40) hence the need
for something more, like the old SysInternals' PageDefrag utility that
worked on Windows XP (it won't defrag the pagefile on Windows
Vista/7/Server2008, can defrag the registry hives, and I don't know
about the NTFS files). Either a defragger that will run at Windows
boot-time or one that lets you create a bootable disc (which means the
OS partition being defragged is quiescent since the OS isn't running)
will move those obstinate NTFS files.

Whether or not you have to move around those NTFS or other exclusively
locked files depends on what files you'll be later putting into that
partition. Although you might have tons of free space reported for the
partition, the myriad of tiny portions of the $LOGFILE spread all over
can result in no *contiguous* free space large enough for you to copy a
huge file into that partition. I haven't before bothered looking around
for free defragmenters that include a boot-time scan so Auslogics meets
my needs. If I feel compelled to get some huge file into one contiguous
chunk then re-imaging the partition might be faster than running a
boot-time defrag.

There are payware defraggers with boot-time operation that will
completely defrag even the metafiles for the file system; however, the
OP expressed criteria that the defragger must be free. IObit's
defragger includes boot-time defrags but I'm always leery of anything
from IObit. Also, see the jgloss article linked above regarding
deficiencies of IObit defragger (yeah, it has a boot-time scan but falls
short on other features). Piriform's Defraggler has a boot-time scan.
Although I use Auslogics for scheduled defragging, I also have
Defraggler installed in case I want to do a boot-time scan (which has
been so rare that I can't remember the last time that I did a boot-time
defrag). There is Puran Defrag Free Edition which has boot-time defrag
but I've never used it.

Warning: Do NOT run an incremental or differential image backup on the
same day you defrag your disk(s). You'll end up with huge backups
because all the physical relocation of the files. Incrementals and
differentials are used to create small backups and you defeat that
purpose if you defrag and then run these backups. Schedule the defrag
to run and complete on the same day and before you run a full backup,
and do not defrag on the days you run the incremental or differential
backups. Hence it is unwise to use on-the-fly defraggers that will
defrag when your computer goes idle or to configure boot-time defraggers
to run on every boot.

 

[VanguardLH]

Oops, I see the OP said it was the "System Volume Information" folder
and its contents that Defraggler won't touch. It probably does this
because those files could be locked for exclusive access. THE SVI is
used for:

• System Restore points. You can disable System Restore from the
"System" control panel.
• Distributed Link Tracking Service databases for repairing your
shortcuts and linked documents.
• Content Indexing Service databases for fast file searches. This is
also the source of the cidaemon.exe process: That is the content
indexer itself, busy scanning your files and building its database so
you can search for them quickly. (If you created a lot of data in a
short time, the content indexer service gets all excited trying to
index it.)
• Information used by the Volume Snapshot Service (also known as "Volume
Shadow Copy") so you can back up files on a live system.
(http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2003/11/20/55764.aspx)

Since the OP already has Defraggler installed, he might try using its
boot-time defrag (and when the files won't be locked) to see if the
unmovable file(s) gets moved.

 

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

Oops, I see the OP said it was the "System Volume Information" folder
and its contents that Defraggler won't touch. It probably does this
because those files could be locked for exclusive access. THE SVI
is used for:

• System Restore points. You can disable System Restore from the
"System" control panel. • Distributed Link Tracking Service databases
for repairing your shortcuts and linked documents. • Content Indexing
Service databases for fast file searches. This is also the source of
the cidaemon.exe process: That is the content indexer itself, busy
scanning your files and building its database so you can search for
them quickly. (If you created a lot of data in a short time, the
content indexer service gets all excited trying to index it.) •
Information used by the Volume Snapshot Service (also known as
"Volume Shadow Copy") so you can back up files on a live system.
(http://blogs.msdn.com/b/oldnewthing/archive/2003/11/20/55764.aspx)

Since the OP already has Defraggler installed, he might try using its
boot-time defrag (and when the files won't be locked) to see if the
unmovable file(s) gets moved.

Thank you for your extensive discussion. I am not willing to take any
drastic, possibly dangerous, measures for what is essentially a cosmetic
fix. I just wondered if there was a utility that did the job. BTW, the
boot time defrag option is grayed out in my 64 bit Defraggler (v. 2.06.328).

 

[Jeff Layman]

Thank you for your extensive discussion. I am not willing to take any
drastic, possibly dangerous, measures for what is essentially a cosmetic
fix. I just wondered if there was a utility that did the job. BTW, the
boot time defrag option is grayed out in my 64 bit Defraggler (v. 2.06.328).

Probably a silly question, but would it be possible to use a linux live
CD to defrag the hard disk - including the SVI file - if such a defrag
utility existed on the CD?

The second post here:
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/13976/is-there-a-linux-tool-for-defragging-ntfs-partitions
suggests there might be a possibility of doing it. Might be best to
image the Win7 HD first, though.

 

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

Probably a silly question, but would it be possible to use a linux
live CD to defrag the hard disk - including the SVI file - if such a
defrag utility existed on the CD?

The second post here:
http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/13976/is-there-a-linux-tool-for-defragging-ntfs-partitions



suggests there might be a possibility of doing it. Might be best to
image the Win7 HD first, though.

That possibility occurred to me. I haven't explored it, yet. And I would
definitely image the drive, first! My weekly imaging (with two different
programs) takes place tonight. Maybe I'll boot my Linux CD tomorrow and
see if it has a NTFS defragger utility.

 

[mick]

Depends on WHAT file(s) are not getting defragmented for the OP in his
computer. There are some files that defraggers won't touch.

http://www.techsupportalert.com/best-free-disk-de-fragmenter.htm?page=2#comment-58982

After reading the following article, it appears those scattered NTFS
files the defraggers wouldn't touch were the $LOGFILE. This file gets
scattered across the OS partition because new blocks get created due to
other files occupying the disk space but these blocks won't coalesce
together later with a defrag.

http://mindprod.com/jgloss/defragger.html

Alas, this doesn't include the Auslogics defragger (that I use). The
article mentions Auslogics but doesn't include it in the feature
comparison chart. It's been too long to remember if this one will move
the $LOGFILE into one contiguous chunk of sectors in the OS partition (I
suspect that it does not hence why I found re-imaging the partition
worked to defrag this part of NTFS).

Although a product may claim it will defrag "system files", that does
not equate to "file system" files. Windows system files are still
system files despite which file system you choose (FAT vs. NTFS).

For a defragmenter to be considered safe, it should use the defrag API
provided by Windows; however, that means files opened for exclusive
access cannot be moved by safe defragger. Some defraggers include a
boot-time defrag operation to run before the files are exclusively
allocated. Auslogics defragger doesn't include a boot-time defragger
(they want you to buy their Bootspeed product for $40) hence the need
for something more, like the old SysInternals' PageDefrag utility that
worked on Windows XP (it won't defrag the pagefile on Windows
Vista/7/Server2008, can defrag the registry hives, and I don't know
about the NTFS files). Either a defragger that will run at Windows
boot-time or one that lets you create a bootable disc (which means the
OS partition being defragged is quiescent since the OS isn't running)
will move those obstinate NTFS files.

Whether or not you have to move around those NTFS or other exclusively
locked files depends on what files you'll be later putting into that
partition. Although you might have tons of free space reported for the
partition, the myriad of tiny portions of the $LOGFILE spread all over
can result in no *contiguous* free space large enough for you to copy a
huge file into that partition. I haven't before bothered looking around
for free defragmenters that include a boot-time scan so Auslogics meets
my needs. If I feel compelled to get some huge file into one contiguous
chunk then re-imaging the partition might be faster than running a
boot-time defrag.

There are payware defraggers with boot-time operation that will
completely defrag even the metafiles for the file system; however, the
OP expressed criteria that the defragger must be free. IObit's
defragger includes boot-time defrags but I'm always leery of anything
from IObit. Also, see the jgloss article linked above regarding
deficiencies of IObit defragger (yeah, it has a boot-time scan but falls
short on other features). Piriform's Defraggler has a boot-time scan.
Although I use Auslogics for scheduled defragging, I also have
Defraggler installed in case I want to do a boot-time scan (which has
been so rare that I can't remember the last time that I did a boot-time
defrag). There is Puran Defrag Free Edition which has boot-time defrag
but I've never used it.

Warning: Do NOT run an incremental or differential image backup on the
same day you defrag your disk(s). You'll end up with huge backups
because all the physical relocation of the files. Incrementals and
differentials are used to create small backups and you defeat that
purpose if you defrag and then run these backups. Schedule the defrag
to run and complete on the same day and before you run a full backup,
and do not defrag on the days you run the incremental or differential
backups. Hence it is unwise to use on-the-fly defraggers that will
defrag when your computer goes idle or to configure boot-time defraggers
to run on every boot.

A very interesting and informative reply, particularly on the issue of
defragging and backups.

Not in response to the OP question; just an observation.
I have had numerous computers running XP, Vista and Win 7. On the XP
and Vista systems I used Diskeeper for defragging continually in the
background. I cannot say whether Diskeepers' claims of using their
software gives faster performance or not as I did not experience any
slowness of any computers.

What I have done on the Win 7 computer is to set it up differently. I
have partitioned the hard drive with 100GB for the operating system and
programs, and 500GB for personal files, at the moment there is 48 and
350GB of files on these partitions. I have also opted to use free
software where possible to cut personal costs. This computer has been
running now for just over a year with no Diskeeper installed. I
installed Auslogics Disk Defrag after about a month. So far I have not
had to defrag either partition, they are currently 2 and 3% fragmented.
This computer is used extensively every day for email, newsgroups,
downloading and uploading and general office work of image
manipulation, word processing and dtp. Synchronising every 2 or 3 days
usually indicates about 150 file deletions, 200 file changes and about
300 new files. I always use Ccleaner before every sync or backup to
rid the system of junk and temporary files.

I would have thought that there would be much more fragmentation than I
have got. I am pleased I have saved by not buying Diskeeper again and
it also saves the hard disk constantly churning away and (wearing out
quicker?), Auslogics will be used instead, probably soon, but once in
a year is pretty negligible.

Am I experiencing normal fragmented percentages or was Diskeeper over
emphasising fragmentation?

 

[Thip]

Auslogics Disk Defrag will take care of it:

http://www.auslogics.com/en/software/disk-defrag/

I like Puran. It does a boot time defrag and optimization.

http://www.puransoftware.com/Puran-Defrag-Download.html

 

[Dave \Crash\ Dummy]

I like Puran. It does a boot time defrag and optimization.

http://www.puransoftware.com/Puran-Defrag-Download.html

I like Puran, and I will probably keep using it, but it doesn't defrag
the System Volume Information file. I will leave it on auto defrag for a
few days and see what that does.

 

[Peter Taylor]

I like Puran. It does a boot time defrag and optimization.

http://www.puransoftware.com/Puran-Defrag-Download.html

Did you have to disable Windows 7's built in defragger or does Puran do
that when you install it?

 

[Thip]

Did you have to disable Windows 7's built in defragger or does Puran do
that when you install it?

No, the built-in defragger still works. There are several options in Puran.
I always use Restart--Defrag--Restart.

 

[Peter Taylor]

No, the built-in defragger still works. There are several options in
Puran. I always use Restart--Defrag--Restart.

Thanks.

 

[VanguardLH]

Probably a silly question, but would it be possible to use a linux live
CD to defrag the hard disk - including the SVI file - if such a defrag
utility existed on the CD?

The act of moving the SVI folder results in losing the System Restore
points. So instead of defragging the SVI folder, just turn off SR, lose
the restore points, and reenable SR. Since you'll lose the restore
points if you move this folder, why bother moving it? Just delete
what's inside to recover the disk space.

If want to defrag a partition while the OS is quiescent (so it doesn't
have any files locked for exclusive access), you can use a boot disc
with a defragger on it. There are several ways and OS'es usable on a
boot disc.

Some free defraggers include a boot-time defrag feature. This still
loads the OS but runs the defragger under less processes loaded than for
Safe Mode. The boot-time defrag starts early to eliminate most locking
on system files.

Considering how little difference in performance would result between
using a boot disc with defragger and using a boot-time defragger, pick
whatever method you like. Going for the smallest reported frag count
won't help you with performance. Also, different defraggers are going
to report different levels of fragmentation in the same partition
because they use different algorithms to defrag and also different
computations based on what is included or excluded in a defrag.

Going for the smallest frag count is as fruitless a task as overclockers
that try to squeak out another 1-2% in benchmarks when it has no effect
on real-world performance with real apps. You'll be spending more time
trying to eek out another few percentage points in fragmentation than
that fragmentation would ever generate in extra head movement.

 

[VanguardLH]

I have had numerous computers running XP, Vista and Win 7. On the XP
and Vista systems I used Diskeeper for defragging continually in the
background. I cannot say whether Diskeepers' claims of using their
software gives faster performance or not as I did not experience any
slowness of any computers.

What I have done on the Win 7 computer is to set it up differently. I
have partitioned the hard drive with 100GB for the operating system and
programs, and 500GB for personal files, at the moment there is 48 and
350GB of files on these partitions. I have also opted to use free
software where possible to cut personal costs. This computer has been
running now for just over a year with no Diskeeper installed. I
installed Auslogics Disk Defrag after about a month. So far I have not
had to defrag either partition, they are currently 2 and 3% fragmented.
This computer is used extensively every day for email, newsgroups,
downloading and uploading and general office work of image
manipulation, word processing and dtp. Synchronising every 2 or 3 days
usually indicates about 150 file deletions, 200 file changes and about
300 new files. I always use Ccleaner before every sync or backup to
rid the system of junk and temporary files.

I would have thought that there would be much more fragmentation than I
have got. I am pleased I have saved by not buying Diskeeper again and
it also saves the hard disk constantly churning away and (wearing out
quicker?), Auslogics will be used instead, probably soon, but once in
a year is pretty negligible.

Am I experiencing normal fragmented percentages or was Diskeeper over
emphasising fragmentation?

Sounds like you were using their realtime-when-idle defrag scheme. I
don't use Diskeeper but suspect it might be linked to the screen saver
which activates after the host has gone idle for awhile. Unless you did
something major that would cause severe fragmentation is a very short
time, constant defragging gives you no real benefit. It does, however,
cause problems if you are trying to run incremental or differential
backups. You could pickup every crumb as it falls while cutting slices
from a loaf of bread, or you could finish your cutting and then sweep it
all up at once.

Most users way over defrag their disks because they think the frag count
has to be tiny and as close to zero as possible. They'd do much better
looking at mobos with better I/O handling and faster hard disks. While
I schedule a defrag on the same day but before the full image backup,
the scheduled tasks is configured to run after the host has been idle
for awhile and will abort if the host becomes non-idle. Although it is
scheduled for the wee morning hours, I'm still likely to be using my
host at that time. So sometime in a few months there may be a chance
that I'm not using my host and the defrag task gets to run and also
complete. About the only time that I recall manually running a defrag
and letting it complete was when I needed to reduce the size of the
partition.

 

[Char Jackson]

Warning: Do NOT run an incremental or differential image backup on the
same day you defrag your disk(s). You'll end up with huge backups
because all the physical relocation of the files. Incrementals and
differentials are used to create small backups and you defeat that
purpose if you defrag and then run these backups. Schedule the defrag
to run and complete on the same day and before you run a full backup,
and do not defrag on the days you run the incremental or differential
backups. Hence it is unwise to use on-the-fly defraggers that will
defrag when your computer goes idle or to configure boot-time defraggers
to run on every boot.

That surprises me. I don't see why defragging (which really isn't
necessary in the first place) would have any effect on incremental or
differential backups.

 

[Char Jackson]

About the only time that I recall manually running a defrag
and letting it complete was when I needed to reduce the size of the
partition.

I remember running into that situation in the late 90's, but then
Partition Magic and its cousins came along, completely eliminating the
defrag as a separate step in reducing a partition's size. Those were
the days! For the past 10 years or so, most partition managers
silently take care of that for you.

 

[Paul]

I remember running into that situation in the late 90's, but then
Partition Magic and its cousins came along, completely eliminating the
defrag as a separate step in reducing a partition's size. Those were
the days! For the past 10 years or so, most partition managers
silently take care of that for you.

Strictly speaking, defragmentation doesn't have to "move files to the
left" in the fragmentation graph. That's part of the many and varied
policies on "file positioning".

The Sysinternals "contig" program provides a basic defrag function.
It does that, by finding the first N sectors of contiguous space
big enough to hold the file you want defragged, and moving it there.
That causes files to be sprayed all over the disk (I've tried it).
But it does achieve the objective, that when you query the moved
file, it's all in one piece.

A real defragmenter, has additional policies, policies that require
moving other files out of the way, to meet the policy objective.

On the Windows defragmenter, it may choose to move the prefetch
files down near the "left end". On some of the other third party
defragmenters, they do things like put the small files on the left
and the big files on the right. There are as many variations on
file positioning, as there are days of the week.

I feel all the more lucky now, when I wanted to shrink my
laptop Windows 7 C: partition from 320GB to 30GB, that the
Raxco PerfectDisk trial I used for the purpose VanguardLH
suggests, actually did the job. I guess there wasn't
anything in System Volume Information at the time, to
stand in the way. At the time, I was testing the Windows
built in partition shrink function, which only shrinks a partition
to about 51% of original size, requiring repeated shrinks and
defrags to get the job done.

Paul

 

[mick]

Sounds like you were using their realtime-when-idle defrag scheme. I
don't use Diskeeper but suspect it might be linked to the screen saver
which activates after the host has gone idle for awhile.

That is correct.

Most users way over defrag their disks because they think the frag count
has to be tiny and as close to zero as possible.

I always thought that too. What I noticed with Diskeeper is that it
never reduced the total fragmentation to below 1%