Windows 8 Consumer Preview - One word: fail

"Rob" <> wrote:
> On 22/03/2012 21:24, BeeJ wrote:

>> As I have told my friends, MS does not understand ergonomics or
>> consistency and probably never will. Perhaps this presents opportunity
>> for 3rd parties to excel.
>> What is happening in the corporate world, still XP?

> Windows 7 is most sysops client OS of choice these days. One
> reason is the end of XP support in 2014, and most corporates
> require vendor support to be in the contract (which is much better
> for corporates than home users, of course.)

That's one way of looking at it; another view - which involves mostly the
same issues and mostly the same conclusions - is that large organizations
(business and government) have legal, financial, and reputational reasons to
avoid being the victim of a successful attack that wasn't promptly detected
and contained. That's the reason on 8 April 2014 (Patch Tuesday!) Windows
XP will suddenly become prohibited software in many shops.

If you want to scare yourself, consider all of the computers running Windows
XP which are controlling equipment rather than letting a warm body run
programs...especially when the equipment vendor refuses to patch the system,
and/or where there is nobody around who knows anything about the system
because it's been running unattended for so many years. Now consider the
probable number of such systems that the IT staff never heard about, perhaps
because it was connected informally (or with ambiguous documentation) into
the network.

And (obviously more for businesses than your typical consumer) security fix
support for Server 2003 ends 14 July 2015. Large shops have probably
(hopefully) set up a plan to transition to a newer server before then, but
small and medium-sized shops will probably continue to run after support
ends...with predictable consequences. CVE and SANS reports might make
interesting reading for anyone interested in security.

Joe

On 3/22/2012 5:07 PM, Paul wrote:
> ray wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 19:20:54 +0000, arnold wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/w...r-preview.html
>>
>> Unfortunately, Gnome3 and KDE4 seem headed the same direction.
>
> People will flock to the distros, with an interface they can use.
>
> That's why that article mentioned Mint, as a distro standing a
> chance. Ubuntu itself, is still headed in the wrong direction.
>
> I'd disagree with that article a bit, in that Unity isn't as usable
> as Metro. In Unity, I have trouble finding where to launch a
> terminal window from, while in Metro, I can kinda get around.
>
> But as far as Metro goes, I head for the desktop and try to
> stay there as much as I can. It's like riding on a raft in
> the middle of a flood. Every once in a while, your feet get wet,
> and you have to pull them back onto the raft.
>
> <---- I own a whole OS ---->
> +-------------+--------------+
> | | But I |
> | | float on |
> | | this half |
> +-------------+--------------+
> <--- Metro ---><-- Desktop -->
>
> Paul

Got to check that out. Still use KDE4 as my main UI.

--
ACCESS DENIED...

/\_/\
____/ o o \
/~____ =ø= /
(______)__m_m) el cato

"Joe Morris" <> wrote in
news::

> "Rob" <> wrote:
>> On 22/03/2012 21:24, BeeJ wrote:
>

<SNIP>

> If you want to scare yourself, consider all of the
> computers running Windows XP which are controlling
> equipment rather than letting a warm body run
> programs...

Windows XP......controlling equipment?

vs. "letting a warm body run programs..."?

(That doesn't make a lot of sense, to me anyway.)

In message <XnsA0216D6B2C82thisnthatroadrunnern@216.196.97.131>, DanS
<> writes:
>"Joe Morris" <> wrote in
>news::
>
>> "Rob" <> wrote:
>>> On 22/03/2012 21:24, BeeJ wrote:
>>
>
><SNIP>
>
>> If you want to scare yourself, consider all of the
>> computers running Windows XP which are controlling
>> equipment rather than letting a warm body run
>> programs...
>
>Windows XP......controlling equipment?
>
>vs. "letting a warm body run programs..."?
>
>(That doesn't make a lot of sense, to me anyway.)
>
>
He meant controlling things, mostly unattended: ATMs, traffic lights,
ATC, nuclear installations ... as opposed to being there as an operating
system so that a human can do things with their computer.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"He hasn't one redeeming vice." - Oscar Wilde

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <> wrote:
> DanS writes:
>>"Joe Morris" <> wrote:

>>> If you want to scare yourself, consider all of the
>>> computers running Windows XP which are controlling
>>> equipment rather than letting a warm body run
>>> programs...

>>Windows XP......controlling equipment?

>>vs. "letting a warm body run programs..."?

>>(That doesn't make a lot of sense, to me anyway.)

> He meant controlling things, mostly unattended: ATMs, traffic lights, ATC,
> nuclear installations ... as opposed to being there as an operating system
> so that a human can do things with their computer.

Correct. As in HVAC, PABX telephone systems, physical security/badge
readers, and even NAS boxes. It's {amazing, terrifying} how many places in
a large organization one can unexpectedly run into a Windows system where
you least expect it.

Joe

On 23/03/2012 12:08 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:24:59 -0800, "BeeJ" <> wrote
> in article <jkg5b7$jj1$>...
>>
>> As I have told my friends, MS does not understand ergonomics or
>> consistency and probably never will. Perhaps this presents opportunity
>> for 3rd parties to excel.
>> What is happening in the corporate world, still XP?
>
> We are in the midst of an XP to Win7 migration, as are several other
> companies I work with. All are expecting to skip Win8, and possibly
> Win9, depending on timing and features (or lack thereof).
>

Although retired now (so it doesn't matter so much to me) I suspect
you're saying what most are thinking. Windows 8 is a joke for commercial
purposes, unless Metro can be easily and entirely removed in the final
version - no-one would touch it with a bargepole. The same applies to
Ubuntu's Unity and similar - these "Legoland" interfaces are OK for
"fondleslabs" and other kid's toy computers, but in a working
environment no-one will even consider them.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK


Monday is a terrible way to spend 1/7th of your life.

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:46:47 +0100, "Bob Henson" <>
wrote in article <jkpdu6$tv5$>...
>
> On 23/03/2012 12:08 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
> > On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:24:59 -0800, "BeeJ" <> wrote
> > in article <jkg5b7$jj1$>...
> >>
> >> As I have told my friends, MS does not understand ergonomics or
> >> consistency and probably never will. Perhaps this presents opportunity
> >> for 3rd parties to excel.
> >> What is happening in the corporate world, still XP?
> >
> > We are in the midst of an XP to Win7 migration, as are several other
> > companies I work with. All are expecting to skip Win8, and possibly
> > Win9, depending on timing and features (or lack thereof).
> >
>
> Although retired now (so it doesn't matter so much to me) I suspect
> you're saying what most are thinking. Windows 8 is a joke for commercial
> purposes, unless Metro can be easily and entirely removed in the final
> version - no-one would touch it with a bargepole. The same applies to
> Ubuntu's Unity and similar - these "Legoland" interfaces are OK for
> "fondleslabs" and other kid's toy computers, but in a working
> environment no-one will even consider them.

That, and also since our equipment replacement cycle is fairly long
just normal timing will probably place us beyond Windows 8 into Windows
9, or later, since Microsoft has accelerated their release cycle.

--
Zaphod

Vell, Zaphod's just zis guy, ya know? - Gag Halfrunt

On Mon, 26 Mar 2012 10:46:47 +0100, Bob Henson wrote:

> On 23/03/2012 12:08 PM, Zaphod Beeblebrox wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Mar 2012 13:24:59 -0800, "BeeJ" <> wrote
>> in article <jkg5b7$jj1$>...
>>>
>>> As I have told my friends, MS does not understand ergonomics or
>>> consistency and probably never will. Perhaps this presents
>>> opportunity for 3rd parties to excel.
>>> What is happening in the corporate world, still XP?
>>
>> We are in the midst of an XP to Win7 migration, as are several other
>> companies I work with. All are expecting to skip Win8, and possibly
>> Win9, depending on timing and features (or lack thereof).
>>
>>
> Although retired now (so it doesn't matter so much to me) I suspect
> you're saying what most are thinking. Windows 8 is a joke for commercial
> purposes, unless Metro can be easily and entirely removed in the final
> version - no-one would touch it with a bargepole. The same applies to
> Ubuntu's Unity and similar - these "Legoland" interfaces are OK for
> "fondleslabs" and other kid's toy computers, but in a working
> environment no-one will even consider them.

I think you're spot on. Developers have become so obsesses by 'smart
phones' and other small devices that they are trying to make the desktop
look like a phone. Does not cut it for anything productive.

"Bob Henson" wrote in message news:jkpdu6$tv5$...
Although retired now (so it doesn't matter so much to me) I suspect
you're saying what most are thinking. Windows 8 is a joke for commercial
purposes, unless Metro can be easily and entirely removed in the final
version - no-one would touch it with a bargepole. The same applies to
Ubuntu's Unity and similar - these "Legoland" interfaces are OK for
"fondleslabs" and other kid's toy computers, but in a working
environment no-one will even consider them.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK
>
>
For the most part that may be true, yet once Win8 goes RTM the availability
of a prior o/s only lasts so long. Replacement and new pc's (OEM, System
builders) may also (if past history proves correct) offer a downgrade to
Win7 for a period of time. In either case a 'period of time' does not mean
'in perpetuity'.

i.e. Many looking for replacement or new pcs won't have a choice.

--
....winston
msft mvp mail

On 26/03/2012 6:03 PM, ...winston wrote:
> "Bob Henson" wrote in message news:jkpdu6$tv5$...
> Although retired now (so it doesn't matter so much to me) I suspect
> you're saying what most are thinking. Windows 8 is a joke for commercial
> purposes, unless Metro can be easily and entirely removed in the final
> version - no-one would touch it with a bargepole. The same applies to
> Ubuntu's Unity and similar - these "Legoland" interfaces are OK for
> "fondleslabs" and other kid's toy computers, but in a working
> environment no-one will even consider them.


> For the most part that may be true, yet once Win8 goes RTM the availability
> of a prior o/s only lasts so long. Replacement and new pc's (OEM, System
> builders) may also (if past history proves correct) offer a downgrade to
> Win7 for a period of time. In either case a 'period of time' does not mean
> 'in perpetuity'.
>
> i.e. Many looking for replacement or new pcs won't have a choice.

Hopefully, most will be able to skip to Windows 9, assuming that
Microsoft have to come up with something better quite quickly when they
realise how big a mistake Windows 8 is (surely they must already know?).
In the meantime, for anyone stuck with 8, it is possible to hack it into
a usable form and get rid of Metro - there will at least be a market for
third party "conversions" programs to do that, for those that can't do
it themselves.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, UK


Atheism is a non-prophet organization.