Windows 7 Backup and Restore Utility

I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a regular
backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after listening
to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what is called the
3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1 copy saved
offsite.

For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.

Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working copy
and a local backup.
Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite a
debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the moment in
the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.

Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up the
user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In addition,
the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full system backup.

So here are my questions:
If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a single
restore?

Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries on
the system?

Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop, favorites,
etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes occur?

How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
destination? What does it do?

What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?

Thanks,
~alan

"~~Alan~~" <a.shepro-> wrote in message
news:hlr8bl$vko$...
> I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a
> regular backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after
> listening to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what is
> called the 3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1 copy
> saved offsite.
>
> For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.
>
> Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working copy
> and a local backup.
> Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite a
> debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the moment
> in the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.
>
> Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
> what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up the
> user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In
> addition, the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full
> system backup.
>
> So here are my questions:
> If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
> application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
> backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a single
> restore?
***********************************************************************
Only if you do a subsequent 'full system' backup.
Each 'System Backup' is a point in time, changes made after that backup will
not be recorded until you run the system backup again.
Note only Pro, Ultimate and Enterprise editions are supposed to have full
system backup facilities.
Home Premium only has the 'Backup' wizard AFAIK and this backs up the
Microsoft choice only.
(or whatever you pick in 'let me choose')
************************************************************************
>
> Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries
> on the system?
*************************************************************************
Select the 'Let me choose' option and you will see what MS sets as default.
Any Libraries you add will show up in the list.
I doubt however that the program will have enough smarts to automatically
add any libraries you create.
*************************************************************************
>
> Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop,
> favorites, etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes
> occur?
*************************************************************************
Windows backup only runs on schedule.
If you want 'autobackup on file change' then you'll have to find a more
sophisticated backup program.
*************************************************************************
>
> How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
> destination? What does it do?
*************************************************************************
From the limited trials I've done it appears to do some sort of differential
backup.
So from that sense it minimises backup space needs.
Whether the storage files are efficiently compressed ??????
*************************************************************************
>
> What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?
>
> Thanks,
> ~alan

**************************************************************************

It will pay you to think carefully about your backups.
What backup scheme you choose depends 'very' much on what you expect the
backup to be.
Your choices range from Mirrored drives (raid) down to manually dragging and
dropping files within Windows Explorer.

The one thing that you should be sure about is What is being backed up When
and to Where and review it regularly.
Backups are something that needs constant oversight and maintenance.

Best
Paul.

"~~Alan~~" <a.shepro-> wrote in message
news:hlr8bl$vko$...
> I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a
> regular backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after
> listening to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what is
> called the 3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1 copy
> saved offsite.
>
> For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.
>
> Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working copy
> and a local backup.
> Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite a
> debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the moment
> in the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.
>
> Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
> what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up the
> user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In
> addition, the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full
> system backup.
>
> So here are my questions:
> If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
> application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
> backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a single
> restore?
>
> Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries
> on the system?
>
> Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop,
> favorites, etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes
> occur?
>
> How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
> destination? What does it do?
>
> What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?
>
> Thanks,
> ~alan

What I am really looking for is to backup my current system as a full backup
including everything on my hard drives. Then perform either an incremental
or a differential backup of my entire system so in the event of a complete
and total failure, all I have to do is restore from the latest backup and
within say, an hour, I'm up and running with a system that I had say about
15 hours earlier. It's that simple.

I currently have Norton Ghost 15 for one of my systems but the license is
for one system. I'm looking into other solutions at a much lower cost
(about ~$70.00/system)

BTW, Norton Ghost is NOT what it was back in 2003. IMHO, the only thing
that has stayed the same is the name only.

~alan

This is what you're looking for and it's free.
http://www.macrium.com/reflectfree.asp

If you have a Seagate drive, Seagate offers a free program called Disk
Wizard that's basically a waterdowned version of Acronic.

--


"Don't pick a fight with an old man.
If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you."


"~~Alan~~" <> wrote in message
news:hltthr$ar$...
>
>
> "~~Alan~~" <a.shepro-> wrote in message
> news:hlr8bl$vko$...
>> I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a
>> regular backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after
>> listening to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what
>> is called the 3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1
>> copy saved offsite.
>>
>> For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.
>>
>> Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working copy
>> and a local backup.
>> Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite a
>> debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the moment
>> in the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.
>>
>> Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
>> what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up
>> the user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In
>> addition, the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full
>> system backup.
>>
>> So here are my questions:
>> If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
>> application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
>> backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a single
>> restore?
>>
>> Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries
>> on the system?
>>
>> Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop,
>> favorites, etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes
>> occur?
>>
>> How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
>> destination? What does it do?
>>
>> What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> ~alan
>
> What I am really looking for is to backup my current system as a full
> backup including everything on my hard drives. Then perform either an
> incremental or a differential backup of my entire system so in the event
> of a complete and total failure, all I have to do is restore from the
> latest backup and within say, an hour, I'm up and running with a system
> that I had say about 15 hours earlier. It's that simple.
>
> I currently have Norton Ghost 15 for one of my systems but the license is
> for one system. I'm looking into other solutions at a much lower cost
> (about ~$70.00/system)
>
> BTW, Norton Ghost is NOT what it was back in 2003. IMHO, the only thing
> that has stayed the same is the name only.
>
> ~alan
>
>

On 2/22/10, ~~Alan~~ posted:

> "~~Alan~~" <a.shepro-> wrote in message
> news:hlr8bl$vko$...
>> I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a regular
>> backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after listening
>> to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what is called the
>> 3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1 copy saved
>> offsite.
>>
>> For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.
>>
>> Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working copy
>> and a local backup.
>> Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite a
>> debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the moment in
>> the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.
>>
>> Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
>> what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up the
>> user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In addition,
>> the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full system backup.
>>
>> So here are my questions:
>> If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
>> application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
>> backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a single
>> restore?
>>
>> Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries on
>> the system?
>>
>> Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop, favorites,
>> etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes occur?
>>
>> How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
>> destination? What does it do?
>>
>> What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> ~alan

> What I am really looking for is to backup my current system as a full backup
> including everything on my hard drives. Then perform either an incremental
> or a differential backup of my entire system so in the event of a complete
> and total failure, all I have to do is restore from the latest backup and
> within say, an hour, I'm up and running with a system that I had say about 15
> hours earlier. It's that simple.

> I currently have Norton Ghost 15 for one of my systems but the license is for
> one system. I'm looking into other solutions at a much lower cost (about
> ~$70.00/system)

> BTW, Norton Ghost is NOT what it was back in 2003. IMHO, the only thing that
> has stayed the same is the name only.

> ~alan

Macrium Reflect for image backups (compressed proprietary format) and
Casper for clone backups (verbatim copy of drive) will do much of what
you want.

The free version of Macrium will not do incremental backups.

Casper sells a fairly cheap four-computer license (called Value Pack),
and both are cheaper than Ghost.

--
Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com

"Gene E. Bloch" <> wrote in message
news:hlvctk$t86$...
> On 2/22/10, ~~Alan~~ posted:
>
>> "~~Alan~~" <a.shepro-> wrote in message
>> news:hlr8bl$vko$...
>>> I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a
>>> regular backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after
>>> listening to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what
>>> is called the 3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1
>>> copy saved offsite.
>>>
>>> For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.
>>>
>>> Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working
>>> copy and a local backup.
>>> Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite
>>> a debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the
>>> moment in the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.
>>>
>>> Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
>>> what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up
>>> the user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In
>>> addition, the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full
>>> system backup.
>>>
>>> So here are my questions:
>>> If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
>>> application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
>>> backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a
>>> single restore?
>>>
>>> Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries
>>> on the system?
>>>
>>> Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop,
>>> favorites, etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes
>>> occur?
>>>
>>> How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
>>> destination? What does it do?
>>>
>>> What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> ~alan
>
>> What I am really looking for is to backup my current system as a full
>> backup including everything on my hard drives. Then perform either an
>> incremental or a differential backup of my entire system so in the event
>> of a complete and total failure, all I have to do is restore from the
>> latest backup and within say, an hour, I'm up and running with a system
>> that I had say about 15 hours earlier. It's that simple.
>
>> I currently have Norton Ghost 15 for one of my systems but the license is
>> for one system. I'm looking into other solutions at a much lower cost
>> (about ~$70.00/system)
>
>> BTW, Norton Ghost is NOT what it was back in 2003. IMHO, the only thing
>> that has stayed the same is the name only.
>
>> ~alan
>
> Macrium Reflect for image backups (compressed proprietary format) and
> Casper for clone backups (verbatim copy of drive) will do much of what you
> want.
>
> The free version of Macrium will not do incremental backups.
>
> Casper sells a fairly cheap four-computer license (called Value Pack), and
> both are cheaper than Ghost.


For whole drive backup with incremental updates you can also use ImageX.EXE
which is free from Microsoft. Has to be done outside of Windows, but it's
free.

- Boot to PE
- For whole system backup (initial backup) imagex /capture C:\ D:\backup.wim
"My backup".
- Capture differences since last backup imagex /append C:\ D:\backup.wim
"Changes"

The "capture" command captures an entire drive.

The "append" command captures an entire drive, but rather than making a new
file it appends it to an existing file, but only different files. Files that
already exist in the image and are the same as the current system aren't
re-written, just uses pointers.

This indexing is how they have multiple versions of the OS on a single DVD
but only 1 image file. Each version is an index within the image and the
only files contained within each index (other than the first) is just what
is different form the first. All files that are common only exist in the
1st index.


To restore...

See what the latest "index" number is (index gets incremented with each
append)
- imagex /info will display the information about the various images within
the WIM file
- prepare drive (clean it, make partition, mark it active, assign a drive
letter)
- Imagex /apply d:\backup.wim 4 C:\ (assuming latest index is 4)

If you need to retrieve/delete/modify files within the image manually...
- mkdir C:\MNT
- imagex /mountrw d:\backup.wim 4 C:\MNT (assuming index number is 4)

Now you can browse the contents of the image by going to C:\MNT.

When done, to commit changes...
- imagex /unmount /commit C:\MNT

On 2/22/10, Seth posted:
> "Gene E. Bloch" <> wrote in message
> news:hlvctk$t86$...
>> On 2/22/10, ~~Alan~~ posted:
>>
>>> "~~Alan~~" <a.shepro-> wrote in message
>>> news:hlr8bl$vko$...
>>>> I am starting to get with the program and looking into performing a
>>>> regular backup of my system. There are many choices out there and after
>>>> listening to a techie radio talk show, I am starting to believe in what
>>>> is called the 3-2-1 system: 3 copies of a file, 2 copies locally, and 1
>>>> copy saved offsite.
>>>>
>>>> For the offsite, I've chosen Carbonite - end of discussion here.
>>>>
>>>> Locally is where my questions lie. The 2 copies are my real working copy
>>>> and a local backup.
>>>> Yes there are many backup products out there that I know can stir quite a
>>>> debate on this topic of what to use. But I'm interested for the moment
>>>> in the Backup and Restore utility that comes with Windows 7.
>>>>
>>>> Out of the box, so to speak, the default choice is to let windows decide
>>>> what to backup. It seems that it will backup the folders that make up
>>>> the user's basic library of documents, photos, music, and videos. In
>>>> addition, the first time the backup is run, it will also create a full
>>>> system backup.
>>>>
>>>> So here are my questions:
>>>> If I make any changes to the operating system, such as installing a new
>>>> application or updating the OS, will these changes be reflected in the
>>>> backup so that in the event of a complete failure, I can perform a single
>>>> restore?
>>>>
>>>> Does the backup also include the basic library of other user's libraries
>>>> on the system?
>>>>
>>>> Do the files that make up the users' (plural) profiles, desktop,
>>>> favorites, etc., get backed up and do they get backed up when changes
>>>> occur?
>>>>
>>>> How well does it manage the space on the disk I use as my backup
>>>> destination? What does it do?
>>>>
>>>> What other questions should I be asking that I do not know of yet?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> ~alan
>>
>>> What I am really looking for is to backup my current system as a full
>>> backup including everything on my hard drives. Then perform either an
>>> incremental or a differential backup of my entire system so in the event
>>> of a complete and total failure, all I have to do is restore from the
>>> latest backup and within say, an hour, I'm up and running with a system
>>> that I had say about 15 hours earlier. It's that simple.
>>
>>> I currently have Norton Ghost 15 for one of my systems but the license is
>>> for one system. I'm looking into other solutions at a much lower cost
>>> (about ~$70.00/system)
>>
>>> BTW, Norton Ghost is NOT what it was back in 2003. IMHO, the only thing
>>> that has stayed the same is the name only.
>>
>>> ~alan
>>
>> Macrium Reflect for image backups (compressed proprietary format) and
>> Casper for clone backups (verbatim copy of drive) will do much of what you
>> want.
>>
>> The free version of Macrium will not do incremental backups.
>>
>> Casper sells a fairly cheap four-computer license (called Value Pack), and
>> both are cheaper than Ghost.


> For whole drive backup with incremental updates you can also use ImageX.EXE
> which is free from Microsoft. Has to be done outside of Windows, but it's
> free.

> - Boot to PE
> - For whole system backup (initial backup) imagex /capture C:\ D:\backup.wim
> "My backup".
> - Capture differences since last backup imagex /append C:\ D:\backup.wim
> "Changes"

> The "capture" command captures an entire drive.

> The "append" command captures an entire drive, but rather than making a new
> file it appends it to an existing file, but only different files. Files that
> already exist in the image and are the same as the current system aren't
> re-written, just uses pointers.

> This indexing is how they have multiple versions of the OS on a single DVD
> but only 1 image file. Each version is an index within the image and the
> only files contained within each index (other than the first) is just what is
> different form the first. All files that are common only exist in the 1st
> index.


> To restore...

> See what the latest "index" number is (index gets incremented with each
> append)
> - imagex /info will display the information about the various images within
> the WIM file
> - prepare drive (clean it, make partition, mark it active, assign a drive
> letter)
> - Imagex /apply d:\backup.wim 4 C:\ (assuming latest index is 4)

> If you need to retrieve/delete/modify files within the image manually...
> - mkdir C:\MNT
> - imagex /mountrw d:\backup.wim 4 C:\MNT (assuming index number is 4)

> Now you can browse the contents of the image by going to C:\MNT.

> When done, to commit changes...
> - imagex /unmount /commit C:\MNT

Never heard of that - thanks for the info and tutorial.

Time to do a bit of research...

--
Gene Bloch 650.366.4267 lettersatblochg.com

"Gene E. Bloch" <> wrote in message
news:hm4j7c$dnq$...
> On 2/22/10, Seth posted:
>
>> For whole drive backup with incremental updates you can also use
>> ImageX.EXE which is free from Microsoft. Has to be done outside of
>> Windows, but it's free.
>
>> - Boot to PE
>> - For whole system backup (initial backup) imagex /capture C:\
>> D:\backup.wim "My backup".
>> - Capture differences since last backup imagex /append C:\ D:\backup.wim
>> "Changes"
>
>> The "capture" command captures an entire drive.
>
>> The "append" command captures an entire drive, but rather than making a
>> new file it appends it to an existing file, but only different files.
>> Files that already exist in the image and are the same as the current
>> system aren't re-written, just uses pointers.
>
>> This indexing is how they have multiple versions of the OS on a single
>> DVD but only 1 image file. Each version is an index within the image and
>> the only files contained within each index (other than the first) is just
>> what is different form the first. All files that are common only exist
>> in the 1st index.
>
>
>> To restore...
>
>> See what the latest "index" number is (index gets incremented with each
>> append)
>> - imagex /info will display the information about the various images
>> within the WIM file
>> - prepare drive (clean it, make partition, mark it active, assign a drive
>> letter)
>> - Imagex /apply d:\backup.wim 4 C:\ (assuming latest index is 4)
>
>> If you need to retrieve/delete/modify files within the image manually...
>> - mkdir C:\MNT
>> - imagex /mountrw d:\backup.wim 4 C:\MNT (assuming index number is 4)
>
>> Now you can browse the contents of the image by going to C:\MNT.
>
>> When done, to commit changes...
>> - imagex /unmount /commit C:\MNT
>
> Never heard of that - thanks for the info and tutorial.
>
> Time to do a bit of research...


No problem.

A little extra, probably not needed info...

When doing a "non-destructive, clean build" (as in not formatting the drive,
old OS and programs stored in C:\WINDOWS.OLD) what Panther (Panther is the
name of the setup program introduced with Vista and part of why they had to
move the boot disk to WinPE) does is create WINDOWS.OLD, moves the top level
folders to be saved (which is why it happens so fast) and then does the
IMAGEX /APPLY right onto the non-reformatted drive. Other folders that may
be in the root of C: (like say a \DELL\DRIVERS folder) remain untouched as
the ImageX process runs file by file. Unlike say GHOST and other that do a
full partition or disk load.

MS was severely lacking in imaging technology for a long time. SYSPREP to
prepare a machine for imaging has been around since Windows98 and it's only
just recently with Vista that they finally included one in their deployment
tools.

Here's the full list of command line options.
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...8WS.10%29.aspx

Also, for those who need a little help with CLI, there is a GUI frontend
written by a 3rd party called GImageX.

ImageX is installed automatically as part of the WAIK.

"Seth" <> wrote in message
news:hm4que$fik$...
>
>>
> MS was severely lacking in imaging technology for a long time. SYSPREP to prepare a machine for
> imaging has been around since Windows98 and it's only just recently with Vista that they finally
> included one in their deployment tools.
>
> Here's the full list of command line options.
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...8WS.10%29.aspx
>
> Also, for those who need a little help with CLI, there is a GUI frontend written by a 3rd party
> called GImageX.
>
> ImageX is installed automatically as part of the WAIK.
>

Thanks for the heads-up about GImageX, I'm currently messing about
with WinBuilder and trying to build a Win7 rescue disk.
I already have Autoit and I'm well impressed with their software.

"Dave-UK" <> wrote in message
news...
>
> "Seth" <> wrote in message
> news:hm4que$fik$...
>>
>>>
>> MS was severely lacking in imaging technology for a long time. SYSPREP
>> to prepare a machine for imaging has been around since Windows98 and it's
>> only just recently with Vista that they finally included one in their
>> deployment tools.
>>
>> Here's the full list of command line options.
>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/l...8WS.10%29.aspx
>>
>> Also, for those who need a little help with CLI, there is a GUI frontend
>> written by a 3rd party called GImageX.
>>
>> ImageX is installed automatically as part of the WAIK.
>>
>
> Thanks for the heads-up about GImageX, I'm currently messing about
> with WinBuilder and trying to build a Win7 rescue disk.
> I already have Autoit and I'm well impressed with their software.

Does this mean you don't think the 'system image' and 'system repair' discs
are adequate?

--
--
https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/