Unexpected Shutdown

Discussion in 'alt.windows7.general' started by Shoe, Dec 1, 2012.

  1. Shoe

    Shoe Guest

    Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    on how to go about resolving this?
     
    Shoe, Dec 1, 2012
    #1
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  2. Shoe

    BillW50 Guest

    On 12/1/2012 2:56 PM, Shoe wrote:
    > Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    > sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    > happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    > shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    > or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    > This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    > couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    > this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    > on how to go about resolving this?


    Does the event log tell you anything? You know, my first thought is an
    overheating problem. You might ask, overheating? It's in standby! Yes
    standby almost always shuts down the fans. And the heatsinks on the RAM
    or CPU isn't large enough. Although it could be something else of course.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
    Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8
     
    BillW50, Dec 1, 2012
    #2
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  3. Shoe

    BillW50 Guest

    On 12/1/2012 4:39 PM, BillW50 wrote:
    > On 12/1/2012 2:56 PM, Shoe wrote:
    >> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >> on how to go about resolving this?

    >
    > Does the event log tell you anything? You know, my first thought is an
    > overheating problem. You might ask, overheating? It's in standby! Yes
    > standby almost always shuts down the fans. And the heatsinks on the RAM
    > or CPU isn't large enough. Although it could be something else of course.


    Or I should add dirty heatsinks.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
    Centrino Core2 Duo T7400 2.16 GHz - 4GB - Windows 8
     
    BillW50, Dec 1, 2012
    #3
  4. Shoe

    charlie Guest

    On 12/1/2012 3:56 PM, Shoe wrote:
    > Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    > sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    > happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    > shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    > or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    > This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    > couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    > this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    > on how to go about resolving this?
    >


    Is the computer connected directly to A/C, or does it have a UPS between
    it and the wall plug?
    (Power glitches?)

    A few computers can implement a full shutdown after being in standby or
    hibernate after a user settable time.)
    To get this sort of thing to work, BIOS and the windows power options
    have to be set properly.

    It sounds like your shutdown may be AC power related. (A more than
    uncommon problem in some areas.)
     
    charlie, Dec 1, 2012
    #4
  5. Shoe

    Paul Guest

    BillW50 wrote:
    > On 12/1/2012 4:39 PM, BillW50 wrote:
    >> On 12/1/2012 2:56 PM, Shoe wrote:
    >>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >>> on how to go about resolving this?

    >>
    >> Does the event log tell you anything? You know, my first thought is an
    >> overheating problem. You might ask, overheating? It's in standby! Yes
    >> standby almost always shuts down the fans. And the heatsinks on the RAM
    >> or CPU isn't large enough. Although it could be something else of course.

    >
    > Or I should add dirty heatsinks.
    >


    Where the heat would be, is inside the power supply.

    The +5VSB isn't very efficient. And there's a bit of
    heat involved, and the PSU fan does not spin.

    It all depends, on whether the OP noticed the +5VSB glitching
    or not running, or whether the power was stable, and
    a crash was only observed on recovery from sleep (i.e.
    bad RAM, unable to keep data while running in self-refresh
    mode).

    On Asus motherboards, the single LED on the motherboard
    is likely tied directly to +5VSB. And can sometimes be
    used to detect a problem with +5VSB. Like, if you see
    the LED "oscillate" when the computer is sleeping or
    hibernating, or when it's trying to boot or whatever.
    The +5VSB should be stable whenever the PSU is switched
    on at the back, and there shouldn't be any blinking
    of such LEDs.

    My Asrock motherboard, has no LED for that, and it's
    a nuisance to come up with another monitoring solution
    to take the place of that LED.

    The sleep LED on some computer cases, on the front,
    typically blinks at a 1 Hertz rate, and that too
    isn't all that useful for detecting a +5VSB problem.
    The LED that operates with steady light output,
    on the motherboard surface, is the best monitoring
    method, short of dragging out the multimeter or
    oscilloscope or data logging instrument.

    If the computer is used to recharge portable
    devices (iPad, iPod, phone), then disconnect
    all those loads and retest the sleep function
    with a bit less DC loading.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 1, 2012
    #5
  6. Shoe

    VanguardLH Guest

    "Shoe" wrote:

    > Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    > sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    > happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    > shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    > or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    > This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    > couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    > this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    > on how to go about resolving this?


    Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    computer entered low-power mode.
     
    VanguardLH, Dec 2, 2012
    #6
  7. Shoe

    Rob Guest

    On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    > "Shoe" wrote:
    >
    >> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >> on how to go about resolving this?

    >
    > Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    > remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    > when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    > test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    > with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    > That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    > for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    > got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    > computer entered low-power mode.
    >



    Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.
     
    Rob, Dec 2, 2012
    #7
  8. Shoe

    Paul Guest

    Rob wrote:
    > On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    >> "Shoe" wrote:
    >>
    >>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >>> on how to go about resolving this?

    >>
    >> Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    >> remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    >> when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    >> test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    >> with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    >> That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    >> for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    >> got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    >> computer entered low-power mode.
    >>

    >
    >
    > Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.


    It's possible, but in terms of probabilities, power supply
    ranks pretty high up the chart, in terms of being the
    faulty bit.

    I've had two power supplies fail here at home, and not cheap ones.
    While on motherboards, they've been perfect.

    Bad RAM could do it, but then, you might have other signs
    the RAM is bad, such as lots of crashes or errors while
    the computer is running.

    When a machine sleeps, the RAM sticks are put in self-refresh
    as far as I know. The +5VSB from the power supply, continues
    to be converted into low voltage (1.8V or 1.5V, DDR2 or DDR3)
    to power the RAM. And I think it might still need a clock signal
    as well. On recovery, the BIOS has to be smart enough not
    to reset the RAM sticks by accident. As long as the controller
    is not reprogrammed, the RAM contents stay intact.

    More modern OSes, have various "hybrid" options, where not
    only is stuff kept in RAM, but it can also be held on disk
    just in case. In those cases, you can survive a RAM failure,
    and still have your session preserved. The penalty, is slower
    setup and recovery, depending on the scheme. Suspending to
    RAM without any hybrid feature, should be pretty fast, but
    a lot more dangerous.

    I have one computer here, that about one in four times,
    it doesn't survive coming out of S3 sleep. For that machine,
    I use S4 Hibernate, and it's all good. I don't worry about it.
    It's probably a design issue, and has been there since the
    first day I got it. It's not worth fixing. And I've done
    enough RAM swaps, to know the RAM is fine. The RAM has been
    used in this machine before, and no issues.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 2, 2012
    #8
  9. Shoe

    Rob Guest

    On 2/12/2012 7:03 PM, Paul wrote:
    > Rob wrote:
    >> On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    >>> "Shoe" wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >>>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >>>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >>>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >>>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >>>> on how to go about resolving this?
    >>>
    >>> Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    >>> remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    >>> when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    >>> test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    >>> with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    >>> That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    >>> for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    >>> got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    >>> computer entered low-power mode.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.

    >
    > It's possible, but in terms of probabilities, power supply
    > ranks pretty high up the chart, in terms of being the
    > faulty bit.
    >
    > I've had two power supplies fail here at home, and not cheap ones.
    > While on motherboards, they've been perfect.
    >
    > Bad RAM could do it, but then, you might have other signs
    > the RAM is bad, such as lots of crashes or errors while
    > the computer is running.
    >
    > When a machine sleeps, the RAM sticks are put in self-refresh
    > as far as I know. The +5VSB from the power supply, continues
    > to be converted into low voltage (1.8V or 1.5V, DDR2 or DDR3)
    > to power the RAM. And I think it might still need a clock signal
    > as well. On recovery, the BIOS has to be smart enough not
    > to reset the RAM sticks by accident. As long as the controller
    > is not reprogrammed, the RAM contents stay intact.
    >
    > More modern OSes, have various "hybrid" options, where not
    > only is stuff kept in RAM, but it can also be held on disk
    > just in case. In those cases, you can survive a RAM failure,
    > and still have your session preserved. The penalty, is slower
    > setup and recovery, depending on the scheme. Suspending to
    > RAM without any hybrid feature, should be pretty fast, but
    > a lot more dangerous.
    >
    > I have one computer here, that about one in four times,
    > it doesn't survive coming out of S3 sleep. For that machine,
    > I use S4 Hibernate, and it's all good. I don't worry about it.
    > It's probably a design issue, and has been there since the
    > first day I got it. It's not worth fixing. And I've done
    > enough RAM swaps, to know the RAM is fine. The RAM has been
    > used in this machine before, and no issues.
    >
    > Paul



    There was a problem with this happening and a fixit from the MS site
    could help. Do know what it is but its there.

    I have had this problem of recent times the problem being a MB. Depends
    on how it boots to see if there are problems with ram. Which you could
    check with memtest 86.
     
    Rob, Dec 2, 2012
    #9
  10. Shoe

    Paul Guest

    Paul wrote:
    > Rob wrote:
    >> On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    >>> "Shoe" wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >>>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >>>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >>>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >>>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >>>> on how to go about resolving this?
    >>>
    >>> Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    >>> remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    >>> when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    >>> test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    >>> with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    >>> That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    >>> for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    >>> got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    >>> computer entered low-power mode.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.

    >
    > It's possible, but in terms of probabilities, power supply
    > ranks pretty high up the chart, in terms of being the
    > faulty bit.
    >
    > I've had two power supplies fail here at home, and not cheap ones.
    > While on motherboards, they've been perfect.
    >
    > Bad RAM could do it, but then, you might have other signs
    > the RAM is bad, such as lots of crashes or errors while
    > the computer is running.
    >
    > When a machine sleeps, the RAM sticks are put in self-refresh
    > as far as I know. The +5VSB from the power supply, continues
    > to be converted into low voltage (1.8V or 1.5V, DDR2 or DDR3)
    > to power the RAM. And I think it might still need a clock signal
    > as well. On recovery, the BIOS has to be smart enough not
    > to reset the RAM sticks by accident. As long as the controller
    > is not reprogrammed, the RAM contents stay intact.
    >
    > More modern OSes, have various "hybrid" options, where not
    > only is stuff kept in RAM, but it can also be held on disk
    > just in case. In those cases, you can survive a RAM failure,
    > and still have your session preserved. The penalty, is slower
    > setup and recovery, depending on the scheme. Suspending to
    > RAM without any hybrid feature, should be pretty fast, but
    > a lot more dangerous.
    >
    > I have one computer here, that about one in four times,
    > it doesn't survive coming out of S3 sleep. For that machine,
    > I use S4 Hibernate, and it's all good. I don't worry about it.
    > It's probably a design issue, and has been there since the
    > first day I got it. It's not worth fixing. And I've done
    > enough RAM swaps, to know the RAM is fine. The RAM has been
    > used in this machine before, and no issues.
    >
    > Paul


    I think I messed up that answer.

    1) If a computer shuts down while sleeping, you have a
    problem with +5VSB. Either the power supply is weak on
    +5VSB, or there are too many loads on +5VSB. For example,
    a person charging an excessive number of USB mobile devices,
    could exceed the rating of +5VSB. Modern motherboards
    run all the USB ports from +5VSB (for better or worse).

    2) Other kinds of problems with sleep, would have to do
    with the RAM contents getting corrupted. For example,
    bad RAM might cause a crash when the computer comes
    back. But that would not be the source of shutdowns.
    Bad RAM or a bad motherboard design, could cause an
    inability to successfully complete a sleep cycle.
    I have a motherboard here, that cannot complete a sleep
    cycle properly, but it doesn't happen every time.
    Presumably the contents of RAM are corrupted.

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 2, 2012
    #10
  11. Shoe

    Shoe Guest

    On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 04:12:48 -0500, Paul <> wrote:

    >Paul wrote:
    >> Rob wrote:
    >>> On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    >>>> "Shoe" wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >>>>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>>>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >>>>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >>>>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >>>>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>>>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>>>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >>>>> on how to go about resolving this?
    >>>>
    >>>> Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    >>>> remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    >>>> when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    >>>> test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    >>>> with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    >>>> That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    >>>> for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    >>>> got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    >>>> computer entered low-power mode.
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.

    >>
    >> It's possible, but in terms of probabilities, power supply
    >> ranks pretty high up the chart, in terms of being the
    >> faulty bit.
    >>
    >> I've had two power supplies fail here at home, and not cheap ones.
    >> While on motherboards, they've been perfect.
    >>
    >> Bad RAM could do it, but then, you might have other signs
    >> the RAM is bad, such as lots of crashes or errors while
    >> the computer is running.
    >>
    >> When a machine sleeps, the RAM sticks are put in self-refresh
    >> as far as I know. The +5VSB from the power supply, continues
    >> to be converted into low voltage (1.8V or 1.5V, DDR2 or DDR3)
    >> to power the RAM. And I think it might still need a clock signal
    >> as well. On recovery, the BIOS has to be smart enough not
    >> to reset the RAM sticks by accident. As long as the controller
    >> is not reprogrammed, the RAM contents stay intact.
    >>
    >> More modern OSes, have various "hybrid" options, where not
    >> only is stuff kept in RAM, but it can also be held on disk
    >> just in case. In those cases, you can survive a RAM failure,
    >> and still have your session preserved. The penalty, is slower
    >> setup and recovery, depending on the scheme. Suspending to
    >> RAM without any hybrid feature, should be pretty fast, but
    >> a lot more dangerous.
    >>
    >> I have one computer here, that about one in four times,
    >> it doesn't survive coming out of S3 sleep. For that machine,
    >> I use S4 Hibernate, and it's all good. I don't worry about it.
    >> It's probably a design issue, and has been there since the
    >> first day I got it. It's not worth fixing. And I've done
    >> enough RAM swaps, to know the RAM is fine. The RAM has been
    >> used in this machine before, and no issues.
    >>
    >> Paul

    >
    >I think I messed up that answer.
    >
    >1) If a computer shuts down while sleeping, you have a
    > problem with +5VSB. Either the power supply is weak on
    > +5VSB, or there are too many loads on +5VSB. For example,
    > a person charging an excessive number of USB mobile devices,
    > could exceed the rating of +5VSB. Modern motherboards
    > run all the USB ports from +5VSB (for better or worse).
    >
    >2) Other kinds of problems with sleep, would have to do
    > with the RAM contents getting corrupted. For example,
    > bad RAM might cause a crash when the computer comes
    > back. But that would not be the source of shutdowns.
    > Bad RAM or a bad motherboard design, could cause an
    > inability to successfully complete a sleep cycle.
    > I have a motherboard here, that cannot complete a sleep
    > cycle properly, but it doesn't happen every time.
    > Presumably the contents of RAM are corrupted.
    >
    >HTH,
    > Paul

    Thanks for all the responses - I will work through them to try to
    resolve this. I do have a UPS between the computer and the AC line,
    so power failure should not be a factor.
    John
     
    Shoe, Dec 2, 2012
    #11
  12. Shoe

    Paul Guest

    Shoe wrote:
    > On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 04:12:48 -0500, Paul <> wrote:
    >
    >> Paul wrote:
    >>> Rob wrote:
    >>>> On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    >>>>> "Shoe" wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down while in
    >>>>>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>>>>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an unexpected
    >>>>>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe mode,
    >>>>>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the computer.
    >>>>>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>>>>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>>>>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any thoughts
    >>>>>> on how to go about resolving this?
    >>>>> Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    >>>>> remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to see if
    >>>>> when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up? If that
    >>>>> test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    >>>>> with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    >>>>> That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again test
    >>>>> for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not, you've
    >>>>> got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    >>>>> computer entered low-power mode.
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.
    >>> It's possible, but in terms of probabilities, power supply
    >>> ranks pretty high up the chart, in terms of being the
    >>> faulty bit.
    >>>
    >>> I've had two power supplies fail here at home, and not cheap ones.
    >>> While on motherboards, they've been perfect.
    >>>
    >>> Bad RAM could do it, but then, you might have other signs
    >>> the RAM is bad, such as lots of crashes or errors while
    >>> the computer is running.
    >>>
    >>> When a machine sleeps, the RAM sticks are put in self-refresh
    >>> as far as I know. The +5VSB from the power supply, continues
    >>> to be converted into low voltage (1.8V or 1.5V, DDR2 or DDR3)
    >>> to power the RAM. And I think it might still need a clock signal
    >>> as well. On recovery, the BIOS has to be smart enough not
    >>> to reset the RAM sticks by accident. As long as the controller
    >>> is not reprogrammed, the RAM contents stay intact.
    >>>
    >>> More modern OSes, have various "hybrid" options, where not
    >>> only is stuff kept in RAM, but it can also be held on disk
    >>> just in case. In those cases, you can survive a RAM failure,
    >>> and still have your session preserved. The penalty, is slower
    >>> setup and recovery, depending on the scheme. Suspending to
    >>> RAM without any hybrid feature, should be pretty fast, but
    >>> a lot more dangerous.
    >>>
    >>> I have one computer here, that about one in four times,
    >>> it doesn't survive coming out of S3 sleep. For that machine,
    >>> I use S4 Hibernate, and it's all good. I don't worry about it.
    >>> It's probably a design issue, and has been there since the
    >>> first day I got it. It's not worth fixing. And I've done
    >>> enough RAM swaps, to know the RAM is fine. The RAM has been
    >>> used in this machine before, and no issues.
    >>>
    >>> Paul

    >> I think I messed up that answer.
    >>
    >> 1) If a computer shuts down while sleeping, you have a
    >> problem with +5VSB. Either the power supply is weak on
    >> +5VSB, or there are too many loads on +5VSB. For example,
    >> a person charging an excessive number of USB mobile devices,
    >> could exceed the rating of +5VSB. Modern motherboards
    >> run all the USB ports from +5VSB (for better or worse).
    >>
    >> 2) Other kinds of problems with sleep, would have to do
    >> with the RAM contents getting corrupted. For example,
    >> bad RAM might cause a crash when the computer comes
    >> back. But that would not be the source of shutdowns.
    >> Bad RAM or a bad motherboard design, could cause an
    >> inability to successfully complete a sleep cycle.
    >> I have a motherboard here, that cannot complete a sleep
    >> cycle properly, but it doesn't happen every time.
    >> Presumably the contents of RAM are corrupted.
    >>
    >> HTH,
    >> Paul

    > Thanks for all the responses - I will work through them to try to
    > resolve this. I do have a UPS between the computer and the AC line,
    > so power failure should not be a factor.
    > John


    In (1), I refer to the behavior of the ATX power supply.

    Check the label on the side, and it will say "5VSB @ 2 amps".
    That tells you it supports 2 amps of current flow, 10 watts
    total. That's all the power that is available during Sleep (S3).

    Some +5VSB regulators inside power supplies, they're about 50%
    efficient, so about 10 watts of waste heat is produced. The
    heatsinks are big enough in the power supply, to handle this,
    without the fans running.

    The motherboard draws 5VSB @ 1 amp, leaving about 1 amp more
    to charge Ipod or Ipad or whatever. Or run your USB desk lamp.

    When a supply gets old, it is possible for the 5VSB to get
    "tired" and trip out at lower current flow values. That would
    lead to a shut off while in sleep.

    The UPS, removed the power company as the potential culprit.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Dec 3, 2012
    #12
  13. Shoe

    Char Jackson Guest

    On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 20:45:46 -0500, Paul <> wrote:

    >Shoe wrote:


    >> Thanks for all the responses - I will work through them to try to
    >> resolve this. I do have a UPS between the computer and the AC line,
    >> so power failure should not be a factor.
    >> John

    >
    >The UPS, removed the power company as the potential culprit.


    A malfunctioning UPS might not remove the power company as a potential
    culprit, and may even introduce a few unknowns of its own. As a
    troubleshooting step, I sometimes remove a UPS from the equation.

    --

    Char Jackson
     
    Char Jackson, Dec 3, 2012
    #13
  14. Shoe

    Rob Guest

    On 3/12/2012 12:45 PM, Paul wrote:
    > Shoe wrote:
    >> On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 04:12:48 -0500, Paul <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Paul wrote:
    >>>> Rob wrote:
    >>>>> On 2/12/2012 2:01 PM, VanguardLH wrote:
    >>>>>> "Shoe" wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Several times in the last few days, my computer has shut down
    >>>>>>> while in
    >>>>>>> sleep mode. Windows 7 Home Premium 64 bit. When I start after this
    >>>>>>> happens, I get the black screen saying that windows had an
    >>>>>>> unexpected
    >>>>>>> shutdown and asking if I want to start windows normally, in safe
    >>>>>>> mode,
    >>>>>>> or what. So far, this has not happened while I am using the
    >>>>>>> computer.
    >>>>>>> This is a machine that I built myself and has been running for a
    >>>>>>> couple of years with no problem. I have no idea how to troubleshoot
    >>>>>>> this problem, whether it is a software issue or hardware. Any
    >>>>>>> thoughts
    >>>>>>> on how to go about resolving this?
    >>>>>> Have you tried configuring the power options so the computer always
    >>>>>> remains powered up (i.e., NEVER goes into any low-power mode) to
    >>>>>> see if
    >>>>>> when you leave it for long times if the awake problem crops up?
    >>>>>> If that
    >>>>>> test passes then go back to your old power scheme and reboot Windows
    >>>>>> with no startup items. Use msconfig.exe to do a selective startup.
    >>>>>> That disables all the startup items (but not any services). Again
    >>>>>> test
    >>>>>> for awhile to see if the problem crops up again or not. If not,
    >>>>>> you've
    >>>>>> got software loading on startup causing the problem later when your
    >>>>>> computer entered low-power mode.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Would not suprise me that the motherboard is buggered.
    >>>> It's possible, but in terms of probabilities, power supply
    >>>> ranks pretty high up the chart, in terms of being the
    >>>> faulty bit.
    >>>>
    >>>> I've had two power supplies fail here at home, and not cheap ones.
    >>>> While on motherboards, they've been perfect.
    >>>>
    >>>> Bad RAM could do it, but then, you might have other signs
    >>>> the RAM is bad, such as lots of crashes or errors while
    >>>> the computer is running.
    >>>>
    >>>> When a machine sleeps, the RAM sticks are put in self-refresh
    >>>> as far as I know. The +5VSB from the power supply, continues
    >>>> to be converted into low voltage (1.8V or 1.5V, DDR2 or DDR3)
    >>>> to power the RAM. And I think it might still need a clock signal
    >>>> as well. On recovery, the BIOS has to be smart enough not
    >>>> to reset the RAM sticks by accident. As long as the controller
    >>>> is not reprogrammed, the RAM contents stay intact.
    >>>>
    >>>> More modern OSes, have various "hybrid" options, where not
    >>>> only is stuff kept in RAM, but it can also be held on disk
    >>>> just in case. In those cases, you can survive a RAM failure,
    >>>> and still have your session preserved. The penalty, is slower
    >>>> setup and recovery, depending on the scheme. Suspending to
    >>>> RAM without any hybrid feature, should be pretty fast, but
    >>>> a lot more dangerous.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have one computer here, that about one in four times,
    >>>> it doesn't survive coming out of S3 sleep. For that machine,
    >>>> I use S4 Hibernate, and it's all good. I don't worry about it.
    >>>> It's probably a design issue, and has been there since the
    >>>> first day I got it. It's not worth fixing. And I've done
    >>>> enough RAM swaps, to know the RAM is fine. The RAM has been
    >>>> used in this machine before, and no issues.
    >>>>
    >>>> Paul
    >>> I think I messed up that answer.
    >>>
    >>> 1) If a computer shuts down while sleeping, you have a
    >>> problem with +5VSB. Either the power supply is weak on
    >>> +5VSB, or there are too many loads on +5VSB. For example,
    >>> a person charging an excessive number of USB mobile devices,
    >>> could exceed the rating of +5VSB. Modern motherboards
    >>> run all the USB ports from +5VSB (for better or worse).
    >>>
    >>> 2) Other kinds of problems with sleep, would have to do
    >>> with the RAM contents getting corrupted. For example,
    >>> bad RAM might cause a crash when the computer comes
    >>> back. But that would not be the source of shutdowns.
    >>> Bad RAM or a bad motherboard design, could cause an
    >>> inability to successfully complete a sleep cycle.
    >>> I have a motherboard here, that cannot complete a sleep
    >>> cycle properly, but it doesn't happen every time.
    >>> Presumably the contents of RAM are corrupted.
    >>>
    >>> HTH,
    >>> Paul

    >> Thanks for all the responses - I will work through them to try to
    >> resolve this. I do have a UPS between the computer and the AC line,
    >> so power failure should not be a factor. John

    >
    > In (1), I refer to the behavior of the ATX power supply.
    >
    > Check the label on the side, and it will say "5VSB @ 2 amps".
    > That tells you it supports 2 amps of current flow, 10 watts
    > total. That's all the power that is available during Sleep (S3).
    >
    > Some +5VSB regulators inside power supplies, they're about 50%
    > efficient, so about 10 watts of waste heat is produced. The
    > heatsinks are big enough in the power supply, to handle this,
    > without the fans running.
    >
    > The motherboard draws 5VSB @ 1 amp, leaving about 1 amp more
    > to charge Ipod or Ipad or whatever. Or run your USB desk lamp.
    >
    > When a supply gets old, it is possible for the 5VSB to get
    > "tired" and trip out at lower current flow values. That would
    > lead to a shut off while in sleep.
    >
    > The UPS, removed the power company as the potential culprit.
    >
    > Paul



    Step one is to check to see if the fan is running to keep it cool.

    Then you can pull the power supply out. Take the screws out and remove
    the cover.

    The biggest problem is the capacitors and the large ones, where all the
    wires come out, should be nice and flat across the tops if not a new PSU
    is required. Also make sure that its clean inside (and Fan) not full of
    dust.
     
    Rob, Dec 3, 2012
    #14
  15. Shoe

    Steve Hayes Guest

    On Sun, 02 Dec 2012 08:44:06 -0500, Shoe <> wrote:

    >Thanks for all the responses - I will work through them to try to
    >resolve this. I do have a UPS between the computer and the AC line,
    >so power failure should not be a factor.
    >John


    I just discussed a similar problem in the XP forum.

    Eventually I found that the problem was a faulty multiplug adapter. See here:

    http://ondermynende.wordpress.com/2012/12/02/wired/


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
     
    Steve Hayes, Dec 3, 2012
    #15
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