please recommend USENET newsreader program

Discussion in 'alt.windows7.general' started by bilsch, May 26, 2012.

  1. I caught a glimpse of Robin Bignall <> on Tue, 29
    May 2012 17:54:51 +0100, writing in alt.windows7.general:

    >On Tue, 29 May 2012 07:07:16 -0700, Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >
    >>> >Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >>> >
    >>> >>That said, I'll tell you that, having tried many of them, my favorite
    >>> >>is Forte Agent. Don't automatically choose what I choose, but I do
    >>> >>recommend that you at least give it a try.
    >>> >
    >>> >I second that opinion.
    >>>
    >>> I third that. And 7.0 was just released.

    >>
    >>
    >>Yes, I've been trying to decide whether it's worth upgrading from 6.0
    >>to 7.0. I think for my uses (Usenet only; I don't use it for e-mail.
    >>And I don't do binary newsgroups) there are almost no advantages to
    >>upgrading.

    >
    >I think you're right, Ken. I upgraded just to stay current, and to give Forte a
    >few dollars. $19 ain't going to break the bank,


    I go along with you Robin, I'm firmly entrenched with Eudora for email
    so I upgraded to 7.0 to support Forte Agent for Newsgroups.
    --

    Erik
     
    Erik Vastmasd, May 31, 2012
    #41
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  2. bilsch

    Ken Blake Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:11:07 +0200, Steve Hayes
    <> wrote:

    > On Wed, 30 May 2012 14:53:13 -0700, XS11E <> wrote:
    >
    > >Ken Blake <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Wed, 30 May 2012 09:28:15 -0700, XS11E <>
    > >> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> Ken Blake <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>> > If you don't mind telling us, I'd be very interested in hearing
    > >>> > what you find better about Xnews than Agent 6.0 (which I use).
    > >>> >
    > >>> > I tried Xnews a couple of years ago, but didn't particularly like
    > >>> > it, so I went back to Agent. What did I miss?
    > >>>
    > >>> Configureability, layout, UI, better filtering, scoring, etc.....
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Thanks. I'm not convinced, but if I get a chance, I'll try it again.

    > >
    > >Most is just personal preference except for the better scoring,
    > >killfiling item. You recall the troll infested MSFT news groups, Xnews
    > >allowed me to never see them.

    >
    > I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that (Free) Agent
    > downloads the articles so that you have a local copy, whereas Xnews leaves
    > them on the server.



    If that's the case, Xnews would be *extremely* slow.
     
    Ken Blake, May 31, 2012
    #42
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  3. bilsch

    XS11E Guest

    Steve Hayes <> wrote:

    > I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that
    > (Free) Agent downloads the articles so that you have a local copy,
    > whereas Xnews leaves them on the server.


    That's optional in Xnews, like almost everything else, it's the user's
    choice.



    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
     
    XS11E, May 31, 2012
    #43
  4. bilsch

    XS11E Guest

    Ken Blake <> wrote:

    > On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:11:07 +0200, Steve Hayes
    > <> wrote:


    >> I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that
    >> (Free) Agent downloads the articles so that you have a local
    >> copy, whereas Xnews leaves them on the server.

    >
    > If that's the case, Xnews would be *extremely* slow.


    It's not the case, it's something the user choses. I do leave all
    messages on the server and Xnews is *extremely* fast!

    PS. If you chose to leave all messages on the server as I do, Xnews
    gives you the ability to get the parent of an article or get the entire
    thread with a mouse click or two (provided they still remain on the
    server) and rebuilding an entire thread can take some time.

    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
     
    XS11E, May 31, 2012
    #44
  5. bilsch

    Ken Blake Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 08:29:25 -0700, XS11E <>
    wrote:

    > Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:11:07 +0200, Steve Hayes
    > > <> wrote:

    >
    > >> I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that
    > >> (Free) Agent downloads the articles so that you have a local
    > >> copy, whereas Xnews leaves them on the server.

    > >
    > > If that's the case, Xnews would be *extremely* slow.

    >
    > It's not the case, it's something the user choses. I do leave all
    > messages on the server and Xnews is *extremely* fast!



    So every time you want to read a message, you have to wait for Xnews
    to download it? That sounds extremely slow to me. If I have all the
    messages already downloaded, I go from one to the next almost
    instantly--at computer speed, not internet speed.
     
    Ken Blake, May 31, 2012
    #45
  6. bilsch

    XS11E Guest

    Ken Blake <> wrote:

    > On Thu, 31 May 2012 08:29:25 -0700, XS11E <>
    > wrote:


    >> It's not the case, it's something the user choses. I do leave
    >> all messages on the server and Xnews is *extremely* fast!


    > So every time you want to read a message, you have to wait for
    > Xnews to download it? That sounds extremely slow to me. If I have
    > all the messages already downloaded, I go from one to the next
    > almost instantly--at computer speed, not internet speed.


    Yes, it takes maybe a millisecond, maybe two? If I read one already
    downloaded it takes maybe a microsecond, maybe two? My eyeballs cannot
    detect a difference.

    NOTE: I have a fairly fast i7 core PC with a cable modem internet
    connection but even in my dial-up days downloading a message was nearly
    instantaneous.


    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
     
    XS11E, May 31, 2012
    #46
  7. bilsch

    Ken Blake Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 10:14:50 -0700, XS11E <>
    wrote:

    > Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >
    > > On Thu, 31 May 2012 08:29:25 -0700, XS11E <>
    > > wrote:

    >
    > >> It's not the case, it's something the user choses. I do leave
    > >> all messages on the server and Xnews is *extremely* fast!

    >
    > > So every time you want to read a message, you have to wait for
    > > Xnews to download it? That sounds extremely slow to me. If I have
    > > all the messages already downloaded, I go from one to the next
    > > almost instantly--at computer speed, not internet speed.

    >
    > Yes, it takes maybe a millisecond, maybe two? If I read one already
    > downloaded it takes maybe a microsecond, maybe two? My eyeballs cannot
    > detect a difference.
    >
    > NOTE: I have a fairly fast i7 core PC with a cable modem internet
    > connection but even in my dial-up days downloading a message was nearly
    > instantaneous.



    I also have an i7 and a fast cable connection. But my experience is
    very different from yours. I find message downloading time to be far
    from instantaneous and very noticeable.
     
    Ken Blake, May 31, 2012
    #47
  8. bilsch

    Ken Blake Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 13:03:28 -0700, Ken Blake <>
    wrote:

    > On Thu, 31 May 2012 10:14:50 -0700, XS11E <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Ken Blake <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > On Thu, 31 May 2012 08:29:25 -0700, XS11E <>
    > > > wrote:

    > >
    > > >> It's not the case, it's something the user choses. I do leave
    > > >> all messages on the server and Xnews is *extremely* fast!

    > >
    > > > So every time you want to read a message, you have to wait for
    > > > Xnews to download it? That sounds extremely slow to me. If I have
    > > > all the messages already downloaded, I go from one to the next
    > > > almost instantly--at computer speed, not internet speed.

    > >
    > > Yes, it takes maybe a millisecond, maybe two? If I read one already
    > > downloaded it takes maybe a microsecond, maybe two? My eyeballs cannot
    > > detect a difference.
    > >
    > > NOTE: I have a fairly fast i7 core PC with a cable modem internet
    > > connection but even in my dial-up days downloading a message was nearly
    > > instantaneous.

    >
    >
    > I also have an i7 and a fast cable connection. But my experience is
    > very different from yours. I find message downloading time to be far
    > from instantaneous and very noticeable.



    Adding to the above, in all the newsgroups I subscribe to, every
    morning I download about 2000 messages using Agent 6.0. If they took
    two milliseconds each, the total download time would be 4000
    milliseconds, or 4 seconds. But it's much more than that--several
    minutes.

    The advantage of downloading them all up front is that after the first
    message, I can read messages as the others are downloading, so there's
    almost no wait time. It's exactly the same reason I use an e-mail
    client instead of reading e-mail on a web site.
     
    Ken Blake, May 31, 2012
    #48
  9. bilsch

    Stan Brown Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:34:19 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
    >
    > > I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that (Free) Agent
    > > downloads the articles so that you have a local copy, whereas Xnews leaves
    > > them on the server.

    >
    > If that's the case, Xnews would be *extremely* slow.


    Why? Text articles are just a couple of KB, and would download
    essentially instantaneously.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
    Stan Brown, May 31, 2012
    #49
  10. bilsch

    XS11E Guest

    Ken Blake <> wrote:

    > Adding to the above, in all the newsgroups I subscribe to, every
    > morning I download about 2000 messages using Agent 6.0. If they
    > took two milliseconds each, the total download time would be 4000
    > milliseconds, or 4 seconds. But it's much more than that--several
    > minutes.


    I download maybe 15 messages/day or less. I get all new headers for
    each group which is VERY fast and download ONLY those messages that I
    want to read, in most groups that number = 0!

    NOTE: I just visited a group I rarely visit and downloaded 695
    messages, I opened none, I couldn't measure the time it took to
    download the headers but it did take time to scroll through and find
    none that I cared to open.... <G>


    --
    XS11E, Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project:
    http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/
     
    XS11E, May 31, 2012
    #50
  11. bilsch

    Steve Hayes Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 18:42:00 -0400, Stan Brown <>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:34:19 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
    >>
    >> > I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that (Free) Agent
    >> > downloads the articles so that you have a local copy, whereas Xnews leaves
    >> > them on the server.

    >>
    >> If that's the case, Xnews would be *extremely* slow.

    >
    >Why? Text articles are just a couple of KB, and would download
    >essentially instantaneously.


    That depends on how much bandwidth is available and how much is being used.

    A few thousand people watching videos upstream can sometimes slow things down
    considerably.


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
     
    Steve Hayes, Jun 1, 2012
    #51
  12. In message <>, Ken Blake
    <> writes:
    >On Thu, 31 May 2012 08:29:25 -0700, XS11E <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >> Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > On Thu, 31 May 2012 07:11:07 +0200, Steve Hayes
    >> > <> wrote:

    >>
    >> >> I think I tried Xnews once, and the biggest difference was that
    >> >> (Free) Agent downloads the articles so that you have a local
    >> >> copy, whereas Xnews leaves them on the server.
    >> >
    >> > If that's the case, Xnews would be *extremely* slow.

    >>
    >> It's not the case, it's something the user choses. I do leave all
    >> messages on the server and Xnews is *extremely* fast!

    >
    >
    >So every time you want to read a message, you have to wait for Xnews
    >to download it? That sounds extremely slow to me. If I have all the
    >messages already downloaded, I go from one to the next almost
    >instantly--at computer speed, not internet speed.
    >

    What part of "it's something the user choses" [sic] did you miss (-:?

    (FWIW, I download rather than reading online, but then I'm
    old-fashioned; it does let me read usenet when I've taken the computer
    somewhere without a connection, though.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The web is a blank slate; you can't design technology that is 'good'. You can't
    design paper that you can only write good things on. There are no good or evil
    tools. You can put an engine in an ambulance or a tank. - Sir Tim Berners-Lee,
    Radio Times 2009-Jan-30 to -Feb-5.
     
    J. P. Gilliver (John), Jun 1, 2012
    #52
  13. bilsch

    BillW50 Guest

    On 5/26/2012 6:13 PM, Big Steel wrote:
    > On 5/26/2012 6:33 PM, BillW50 wrote:
    >> On 5/26/2012 4:59 PM, Big Steel wrote:
    >>> On 5/26/2012 5:54 PM, bilsch wrote:
    >>>> I have been using WinXP for years and have been using Outlook Express
    >>>> for mail and news groups. Now I'm using Win7 woithut Outlook Express.
    >>>> I'm now using Gmail web mail for email but I haven't yet looked for a
    >>>> newsreader program. Can anyone here recommend a USENET newsreader for
    >>>> use with Win7? Anyone have a link to a free hassle-free download of
    >>>> such
    >>>> a program?
    >>>
    >>> Thunderbird I use on my Windows 7 machine for Gmail, Earthlink mail,
    >>> Usenet, and using the NNTP Bridge program so that I can access MS Web
    >>> forms using a NG reader with Thunderbird. It's free.

    >>
    >> Oh man! I have been using Thunderbird since v1.5 and it is just terrible
    >> for newsgroups. Light duty stuff it is okay, but if you want to get
    >> serious, it is just awful. It is nothing as good as Outlook Express for
    >> newsgroups.
    >>

    >
    > I have had no problems with Thunderbird, and I don't live on Usenet either.


    Me either, it sometimes takes me a week or longer to get back to reply.
    And Thunderbird is even worse for us occasional users. It can't even
    view already read watched threads for Pete's sake (how dumb Mozilla
    programmers can be, twelve versions later and they still can't get it
    right). And I don't even know why they even bother having message rules
    anyway. As they are so dang weak they are basically useless.

    --
    Bill
    Gateway M465e ('06 era) - Thunderbird v12
    Centrino Core Duo T5600 1.83GHz - 2GB - Windows XP SP2
     
    BillW50, Jun 1, 2012
    #53
  14. bilsch

    Ken Blake Guest

    On Thu, 31 May 2012 15:52:45 -0700, XS11E <>
    wrote:

    > Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >
    > > Adding to the above, in all the newsgroups I subscribe to, every
    > > morning I download about 2000 messages using Agent 6.0. If they
    > > took two milliseconds each, the total download time would be 4000
    > > milliseconds, or 4 seconds. But it's much more than that--several
    > > minutes.

    >
    > I download maybe 15 messages/day or less. I get all new headers
    > for each group which is VERY fast



    Yes. Same here in Agent.


    > and download ONLY those
    > messages that I want to read, in most groups that number = 0!



    Then that's the difference between us. I download all the bodies, and
    then determine whether I want to read them by quickly looking at the
    text in the bodies. The subject line is usually not informative enough
    for me, and a quick scan of the text (without really reading it all)
    tells me much more about the message.
     
    Ken Blake, Jun 1, 2012
    #54
  15. On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 07:03:38 -0700, Ken Blake <>
    wrote:

    >On Thu, 31 May 2012 15:52:45 -0700, XS11E <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >> Ken Blake <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Adding to the above, in all the newsgroups I subscribe to, every
    >> > morning I download about 2000 messages using Agent 6.0. If they
    >> > took two milliseconds each, the total download time would be 4000
    >> > milliseconds, or 4 seconds. But it's much more than that--several
    >> > minutes.

    >>
    >> I download maybe 15 messages/day or less. I get all new headers
    >> for each group which is VERY fast

    >
    >
    >Yes. Same here in Agent.
    >
    >
    >> and download ONLY those
    >> messages that I want to read, in most groups that number = 0!

    >
    >
    >Then that's the difference between us. I download all the bodies, and
    >then determine whether I want to read them by quickly looking at the
    >text in the bodies. The subject line is usually not informative enough
    >for me, and a quick scan of the text (without really reading it all)
    >tells me much more about the message.


    Downloading bodies with headers only takes a few more seconds in Agent
    if the max size is set to something like 1000 lines. I don't want to
    see bigger messages. There is no reason to download headers first.

    Steve

    --
    Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
    EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
    SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
    JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
     
    Stephen Wolstenholme, Jun 1, 2012
    #55
  16. bilsch

    Steve Hayes Guest

    On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 16:08:11 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme <>
    wrote:

    >Downloading bodies with headers only takes a few more seconds in Agent
    >if the max size is set to something like 1000 lines. I don't want to
    >see bigger messages. There is no reason to download headers first.


    I got into the habit of downloading headers first when I was on dial-up, and
    it was cheaper that way.

    I still do it, though less for that reason than to ignore messages by obvious
    trolls and spammers, and threads that don't interest me.


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Blog: http://khanya.wordpress.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
     
    Steve Hayes, Jun 1, 2012
    #56
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