3TB hard drive

E

Ed Cryer

Will Win7 boot ok with such a large disc; and handle it well enough?
I've used a 2TB one with no problems.

XP used to hang when I tried to boot with a 1TB external drive plugged in.

Ed
 
P

philo 

Will Win7 boot ok with such a large disc; and handle it well enough?
I've used a 2TB one with no problems.

XP used to hang when I tried to boot with a 1TB external drive plugged in.

Ed


That was probably a bios issue and not an XP issue pre se.
 
P

Paul

Ed said:
Will Win7 boot ok with such a large disc; and handle it well enough?
I've used a 2TB one with no problems.

XP used to hang when I tried to boot with a 1TB external drive plugged in.

Ed
Using a 3TB drive as a single boot partition (C: drive), is the hardest
thing to arrange.

Scroll half way down, to the "Windows: 64-bit versions Details of
GPT support on 64-bit editions of Microsoft Windows" table.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table

"Requires UEFI"

Possible solutions are:

1) Official way. UEFI mobo BIOS plus GPT partitioning.
Allows a single 3TB partition as your bootable C: .
2) Visit 3TB disk manufacturer web site. Look for "driver package",
which converts one physical hard drive, into two or more
virtual hard drives. The driver provides a layer of
"faking", and makes traditional MBR based installation
possible. Note - may not work as a boot drive, so not
sure of the details at that level. Could you "press F6" and
install the Seagate driver ? Who knows.

A GPT disk has a "protective MBR" installed, but that
protective MBR likely isn't intended to support booting
(i.e. have an active partition marked with a boot flag).
So a traditional MBR BIOS, isn't likely to get around that.
It's probably not going to do anything intelligent with a
GPT partitioned disk, with respect to booting.

The disk manufacturer web site, usually has FAQ material
to explain the intricacies of >2.2TB devices. When the
big disks first came out, info was scarce.

The official way, likely works for sure. The unofficial way,
screwing around with Seagate or WD virtualization drivers,
who knows what will happen. It just might not be a bootable
configuration. I suspect the BIOS is the "weakest link" in
terms of preventing booting from the new drive.

*******

If the disk is intended solely as a data drive, the
situation is less demanding. Then the virtualization driver
that splits the disk up, is likely to work fine for you
(on an older OS). On a newer OS, try GPT partitioning.
Data only drives are less tricky to set up. As long as
the BIOS doesn't crash (looking at drives it should not be
looking at), all the heavy lifting happens when the OS
tries to access the new data drive with some kind of driver.

That assumes the drive is connected via SATA or ESATA cable.
I've not heard any horror stories (yet) about USB connected
2.2TB drives. If you wanted another connection method,
you could try a USB3 adapter card, USB3 disk enclosure, and
stick the 3TB drive inside that. That might give good sustained
transfer performance (to the limits of the head/platter speed).

HTH,
Paul
 
P

Paul

gufus said:
I'ed hate to defrag it too. <grin>
You'd have a long wait, for any decent sized set of files.

Even on a puny 70GB partition, it took more than all night to
run, and I had to stop it (partition had around 30% free).
That's on WinXP. Windows 7 tends to finish sooner, because
Windows 7 refuses to defrag any file larger than 50MB in size.
The smaller files are still defragmented. If you want Windows 7
to completely defrag something, it takes a third party tool
(or, some clever file copying to a backup disk).

Paul
 
E

Ed Cryer

Paul said:
You'd have a long wait, for any decent sized set of files.

Even on a puny 70GB partition, it took more than all night to
run, and I had to stop it (partition had around 30% free).
That's on WinXP. Windows 7 tends to finish sooner, because
Windows 7 refuses to defrag any file larger than 50MB in size.
The smaller files are still defragmented. If you want Windows 7
to completely defrag something, it takes a third party tool
(or, some clever file copying to a backup disk).

Paul
I walked down to Staples this morning to buy a drive. I still hadn't
made my mind up between a 2TB or 3TB one.
Anyway my plans were baulked by the fact that they're closing down, last
few days of sale.
The biggest one they had was a 1TB one, so I bought that. It's
super-duper small and slim, portable, and it was reduced by 15%.
It's currently on another machine having stuff copied onto it from 2 old
250GB ones.

Happy new year, Ed
 
C

Char Jackson

I'ed hate to defrag it too. <grin>
I don't know many people who manually defrag anymore. That practice seems to
have died off around the turn of the century.
 
C

Char Jackson

I walked down to Staples this morning to buy a drive. I still hadn't
made my mind up between a 2TB or 3TB one.
The biggest one they had was a 1TB one, so I bought that. It's
super-duper small and slim, portable, and it was reduced by 15%.
I'm guessing that "super-duper small and slim, portable" is your way of
saying it's a 2.5" drive versus a 3.5" drive. Your mention of 15% off
reminds me of my sister-in-law when she bought several shirts for her
husband. They were too small for him, but she insisted they were a great
deal because they were 50% off. He schooled her, right there in front of me,
on why what you pay is much more important than how much you didn't pay.
Happy new year, Ed
Happy New Year, Ed.
 
E

Ed Cryer

Char said:
I'm guessing that "super-duper small and slim, portable" is your way of
saying it's a 2.5" drive versus a 3.5" drive. Your mention of 15% off
reminds me of my sister-in-law when she bought several shirts for her
husband. They were too small for him, but she insisted they were a great
deal because they were 50% off. He schooled her, right there in front of me,
on why what you pay is much more important than how much you didn't pay.


Happy New Year, Ed.
This is it;
http://tinyurl.com/bdkh3e5

I'm so impressed with it that I've been and bought another.
They get enough power to run from the USB port, and all in all I find I
can look upon it as a vast memory stick.

I hope they have good survival credentials.

Ed
 
G

gufus

Hello, Char!

I don't know many people who manually defrag anymore. That practice seems
to have died off around the turn of the century.
I have to manually defrag, not all my computers run Win7. :(

--
-gufus
Thou Shalt NOT excessively annoy others or
allow Thyself to become excessively annoyed

Message-ID: (e-mail address removed) Sent at 13:29
 
C

charlie

This is it;
http://tinyurl.com/bdkh3e5

I'm so impressed with it that I've been and bought another.
They get enough power to run from the USB port, and all in all I find I
can look upon it as a vast memory stick.

I hope they have good survival credentials.

Ed
The small 2.5" drives are convenient, but may be slower than the 3.5"
drives. Having said that, I have several of each.
 
T

TheGunslinger

Will Win7 boot ok with such a large disc; and handle it well enough?
I've used a 2TB one with no problems.

XP used to hang when I tried to boot with a 1TB external drive plugged in.

Ed

The issues with HDD's larger than 2TB is not with Windows 7, but
rather whether the BIOS can handle the larger size.

If your PC is less than 3-years (guessing), the BIOS should be able to
handle it.

BUT you will still need to test, and set-up using disk manager.

I have one 3-TB external drive, but the hassle of having to set it up
whenever I need to use and be able to access all 3-TB's is a bit
frustrating.

So, I have a 2-TB external that I use instead.

I would ask that you evaluate whether you need a 3-TB drive, or if a
2-TB will suffice?

IMHO,

MJR
 
C

Char Jackson

Hello, Char!



I have to manually defrag, not all my computers run Win7. :(
Why do you have to defrag? What benefit do you see from doing so?
 
E

Ed Cryer

TheGunslinger said:
The issues with HDD's larger than 2TB is not with Windows 7, but
rather whether the BIOS can handle the larger size.

If your PC is less than 3-years (guessing), the BIOS should be able to
handle it.

BUT you will still need to test, and set-up using disk manager.

I have one 3-TB external drive, but the hassle of having to set it up
whenever I need to use and be able to access all 3-TB's is a bit
frustrating.

So, I have a 2-TB external that I use instead.

I would ask that you evaluate whether you need a 3-TB drive, or if a
2-TB will suffice?

IMHO,

MJR
I have an Acer desktop with a 2TB internal hd; works like a dream under
Win7.

I settled for a couple of 2.5" USB drives. Excellent. The portability is
marvellous; they don't need independent power.
I tried one in the XP machine; boot hung at very beginning. I think it's
occurring because the drive is tested in the boot order. Disabling USB
Legacy support might help, but I'm too busy to experiment. I just plug
it in after boot if I need it.

Ed
 
R

R. C. White

Hi, Ed.

As Paul explains in more detail below, the point is not just the capacity of
"such a large disc". As I found out after I got my 3 TB Seagate GoFlex Desk
external (USB 3.0) drive last year, it is a matter of physical limitations
of our old, familiar MBR's Partition Table and NTFS - and just plain
arithmetic with very large numbers. So we need a new file system, too, and
maybe a new or updated BIOS.

Quickie version: The MBR's Partition Table has room for exactly 4 partition
entries of exactly 16 bytes each, and a LOT of information is packed into
each of those bytes. Some of the bytes are divided into their individual
bits to allow more information to be coded. The first byte says whether the
partition is bootable; others hold the starting and ending sectors of the
partition. The last 4 of those 16 bytes hold a hexadecimal number
representing how many sectors are dedicated to that partition. MS-DOS and
earlier versions of Windows could use only the first 7.8 GB of a disk;
current versions combine those last 4 bytes to allow larger partitions. To
quote the online version of the Windows XP Professional Resource Kit
(http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb457122.aspx):
Using the Relative Sectors and Total Sectors fields (resulting in a 32-bit
number) provides eight more bits than the CHS scheme to represent the
total number of sectors. This allows you to create partitions that contain
up to 232 sectors. With a standard sector size of 512 bytes, the 32 bits
used to represent the Relative Sectors and Total Sectors fields translates
into a maximum partition size of 2 terabytes (or 2,199,023,255,552 bytes).
So the largest partition size we can have in most systems now is not a nice
round number; we usually speak of it as a "2 TB" or a "2.2 TB" limit, or
just "<3 TB", but none of these is really correct.

That's why disks larger than the 2.2 limit must use something newer than the
MBR system: The GPT, or GUID Partition Table file system. And not all
Windows versions - or all BIOSes - are ready to handle that yet. To go from
a 1 GB disk to 1 TB is no big deal; NTFS and MBR can handle that easily.
From 1 TB to 2 TB is just as easy. But to get to 3 TB is a big deal!

For larger disks, we have to use larger sectors so that we can address them
with smaller sector numbers. By converting from 512-byte sectors to 4 KB
(4,096) sectors, we can pack 8 times the number of bytes into the same
number of sectors. This alone would let us increase capacity to about 17.6
TB, but other changes allow the newest file system to handle many times
that.

I'm not a techie, Ed, so this is about the best I can do. As Paul Harvey
sometimes said, "Don't ask me for details. I've already told you MORE than
I know." But it might point some of the readers here to expert advice. And
it might be enough for some us for whom the simple explanation will suffice.

RC
-- --
R. C. White, CPA
San Marcos, TX
(e-mail address removed)
Microsoft Windows MVP (2002-2010)
Windows Live Mail 2012 (Build 16.4.3505.0912)) in Win8 Pro


"Ed Cryer" wrote in message
Will Win7 boot ok with such a large disc; and handle it well enough?
I've used a 2TB one with no problems.

XP used to hang when I tried to boot with a 1TB external drive plugged in.

Ed
 
C

Char Jackson

How about you tell me the disadvantage of defraging.
So you don't know why you do it? :)

Personally, I don't because system performance is the same before and after.
 
G

Gene Wirchenko

How about you tell me the disadvantage of defraging.
What is the benefit? If there is none, then defragging is just
wear on your system. I have never observed any difference. There
could be one, but it would be small on my systems.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko
 

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