Removing Windows 8

Removing an OS is done by two processes;
1. Remove it from the boot menu.
2. Delete or format the partition.

I've removed it from the booting menu, but can't do 2 because that
partition is currently the System one. It won't let me shrink it, delete
it or format it. I could delete the vast majority of files on it, but
not the lot.
The best method would be to change the System setting to Win7 (C).
How do I do that?

Win7 (C) Simple, Dynamic, NTFS Healthy(Boot, Page File, Crash Dump)
291 GB
Win8 (D) Simple, Dynamic, NTFS Healthy (System) 115 GB

Ed

LOL. You do not listen do you Ed. Read the Read.Me files how to do remove the
PREVIEW. Psssst a small hint. Do you know how to format your hard drive???

JS

On 06/10/2011 14:54, Peter Foldes wrote:
> LOL. You do not listen do you Ed. Read the Read.Me files how to do
> remove the PREVIEW. Psssst a small hint. Do you know how to format your
> hard drive???
>
> JS

Are you as sure of that as the other claims you've made?
One was that when Win8 had "eaten" a drive there was no way back.
Another was that it had an inbuilt self-destruct mechanism for after 6
months.

Sail on cap'n Columbus. The crew are mutinying and saying that we'll
fall off the edge of the world. But sail on, mi amigo. No es verdad!

My sketch plan is as follows;
1. Format the Win8 disk with a Linux live CD.
2. Do a repair with a Win7 installation disk.

I have a slight doubt about the setting of "System disk"; whether the
above procedure would be scuppered by it or not.
I could, of course, retain that disk as the System disk, delete all the
deletable stuff, rename it and use it for data.

Ed

On 06/10/2011 14:54, Peter Foldes wrote:
> LOL. You do not listen do you Ed. Read the Read.Me files how to do
> remove the PREVIEW. Psssst a small hint. Do you know how to format your
> hard drive???
>
> JS

P.S. You didn't write this blog, did you?
"According to Microsoft, you cannot perform an uninstall of the Windows
8 Developer Preview from a computer."
http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vjy3o4

On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:45:34 +0100, Ed Cryer <>
wrote:

>On 06/10/2011 14:54, Peter Foldes wrote:
>> LOL. You do not listen do you Ed. Read the Read.Me files how to do
>> remove the PREVIEW. Psssst a small hint. Do you know how to format your
>> hard drive???
>>
>> JS
>
>Are you as sure of that as the other claims you've made?
>One was that when Win8 had "eaten" a drive there was no way back.
>Another was that it had an inbuilt self-destruct mechanism for after 6
>months.
>
>Sail on cap'n Columbus. The crew are mutinying and saying that we'll
>fall off the edge of the world. But sail on, mi amigo. No es verdad!
>
>My sketch plan is as follows;
>1. Format the Win8 disk with a Linux live CD.
>2. Do a repair with a Win7 installation disk.
>
>I have a slight doubt about the setting of "System disk"; whether the
>above procedure would be scuppered by it or not.
>I could, of course, retain that disk as the System disk, delete all the
>deletable stuff, rename it and use it for data.
>
>Ed


Ed, this advice won't help now but in the future when you want to try
something, think virtual drives and you won't have this worry.

Ed Cryer wrote:

> "According to Microsoft, you cannot perform an uninstall of the
> Windows 8 Developer Preview from a computer."
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vjy3o4

Test software (app or OS) doesn't get installed on a production host.
It gets installed on a test host or inside a VM. It obviously isn't
polished enough to be a release version so don't treat it as such.
Preview versions are meant to target users that will test and report on
the software, not try to use it as a production host.

So where are your backups? Use a bootable CD with an OS (e.g., Live CD)
or with utilities that let you delete and format partitions. You could
omit the formatting step as you could use the bootable CD to delete and
create partitions and then your bootable rescue CD for your backup to
restore the backed up image, or use the bootable installation CD for
Win7 if you want to start from scratch. If you don't backup, you deem
your data as trivial or reproducible. If you don't backup, now you've
been burned and it's time to think about it.

If you have backups, there should be a means to recover them from
scratch (where you have to lay down a fresh OS or replace an image). If
not and you have data you want to keep, you'll need a bootable CD with
partitioning utilities. You could then delete the Win8 partition, move
the old Win7 partition to the end of the hard disk (optionally squeeze
its size down to remove slack space), mark is NOT active, and you end up
with 1 partition at the end. Then install a fresh copy of Win7 in the
unused space at the start of the hard disk. When you boot into the new
install of Win7, you'll have the old Win7 as a data disk from where you
can retrieve your data files. When you're done with data retrieval, use
a partition manager again to delete the old Win7 partition and enlarge
the tail end of the new Win7 partition.

On 06/10/2011 20:45, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>
>> "According to Microsoft, you cannot perform an uninstall of the
>> Windows 8 Developer Preview from a computer."
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vjy3o4
>
> Test software (app or OS) doesn't get installed on a production host.
> It gets installed on a test host or inside a VM. It obviously isn't
> polished enough to be a release version so don't treat it as such.
> Preview versions are meant to target users that will test and report on
> the software, not try to use it as a production host.
>
> So where are your backups? Use a bootable CD with an OS (e.g., Live CD)
> or with utilities that let you delete and format partitions. You could
> omit the formatting step as you could use the bootable CD to delete and
> create partitions and then your bootable rescue CD for your backup to
> restore the backed up image, or use the bootable installation CD for
> Win7 if you want to start from scratch. If you don't backup, you deem
> your data as trivial or reproducible. If you don't backup, now you've
> been burned and it's time to think about it.
>
> If you have backups, there should be a means to recover them from
> scratch (where you have to lay down a fresh OS or replace an image). If
> not and you have data you want to keep, you'll need a bootable CD with
> partitioning utilities. You could then delete the Win8 partition, move
> the old Win7 partition to the end of the hard disk (optionally squeeze
> its size down to remove slack space), mark is NOT active, and you end up
> with 1 partition at the end. Then install a fresh copy of Win7 in the
> unused space at the start of the hard disk. When you boot into the new
> install of Win7, you'll have the old Win7 as a data disk from where you
> can retrieve your data files. When you're done with data retrieval, use
> a partition manager again to delete the old Win7 partition and enlarge
> the tail end of the new Win7 partition.

Thanks for that, but it's no improvement on the two options I already have.
1. A full backup 11 days ago + all changes since.
2. Carry on as now, and just ignore the few GBs used by Win8.

Ed

Ed Cryer wrote:
> Removing an OS is done by two processes;
> 1. Remove it from the boot menu.
> 2. Delete or format the partition.
>
> I've removed it from the booting menu, but can't do 2 because that
> partition is currently the System one. It won't let me shrink it, delete
> it or format it. I could delete the vast majority of files on it, but
> not the lot.
> The best method would be to change the System setting to Win7 (C).
> How do I do that?
>
> Win7 (C) Simple, Dynamic, NTFS Healthy(Boot, Page File, Crash Dump)
> 291 GB
> Win8 (D) Simple, Dynamic, NTFS Healthy (System) 115 GB
>
> Ed

I don't really understand what's going on there and what the configuration is.
Why you can't boot into Windows 7 and delete Windows 8.

At the very least, you should have a backup of the entire disk, so if
a step turns out to be wrong, you've got options.

You could try using PTEDIT32, and set the "Type" field of the partition
you want to delete, to "00" from "07". The advantage of that, is you don't
have to change any of the other fields. Setting it to 00 might, in the
case of Windows, cause Windows to ignore that partition on the next boot.
Now, whether Windows will allow you to change the current "C:" partition
in that way, I don't know. I haven't tried that.

You'd run PTEDIT32 as admin.

You can also do this from a Linux LiveCD. Fdisk has the same capabilities as
PTEDIT32, with a less convenient interface. I like in PTEDIT32, how I can just
edit the numbers, copy the numbers from one row to another and so on. But this
also has a simple command for changing the type field of a primary partition.

sudo fdisk /dev/sdb

You could also edit the partition table with a hex editor, by using "dd"
and copying the MBR into a 512 byte table, make edits, then write it back.
(There are four 16 byte fields in the MBR, which is the same info that PTEDIT32
displays.)

Note that, changing the partition type, isn't sufficient in all cases.
I've had software "sniff" a partition, and examine the header portion of the
partition itself, and figure out it's NTFS and mount it. So changing the
partition type to 0x00 is not a guarantee it can't be detected. I'm hoping
in this case, that Windows 7 Repair won't ferret out that partition and
change the field back to 0x07 on you.

*******

The other complicating factor here, is "Dynamic". That has the advantage of
being able to span a partition onto more than one disk, but it can complicate
other things you do. I don't know now, if a partition table manipulation
will be enough to do the job. I've never done partition table changes on a
Dynamic Disk. The thing is, the metadata also contains information on
the disk structure...

I *never* leave partitions in dynamic mode, because I don't know the mechanics
of dealing with issues on them! Dynamic Disks uses something like 1 megabyte
of metadata, up near one end of the disk. As far as I know, this allows
logical volume management, supports spanning across multiple physical disks
and the like. A Partition Editor would know how to safely manipulate something
like that, but I'd have a little research to do, before I used the "Paul approach"
on it (hex editor and sticks of dynamite) :-) As far as I know, the partitions
on my Win7 laptop are Basic rather than Dynamic. It's one less thing to worry
about when I'm hacking stuff.

There is a section here on Dynamic disks. It doesn't go into enough detail
to "get out the hex editor".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Disk_Manager

There are recipes out there, to convert a simple dynamic disk back to basic,
but I don't know if they would cover Vista/Win7/Win8. The recipes rely on
the layout of the data itself, being compatible across both modes, such that
changing the partition table value.

OK, this is what i was looking for.

http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...n_types-1.html

"42 Windows 2000 dynamic extended partition marker

If a partition table entry of type 0x42 is present in the legacy partition
table, then W2K ignores the legacy partition table and uses a proprietary
partition table and a proprietary partitioning scheme (LDM or DDM). As
the Microsoft KnowledgeBase writes: Pure dynamic disks (those not containing
any hard-linked partitions) have only a single partition table entry (type 42)
to define the entire disk. Dynamic disks store their volume configuration in
a database located in a 1-MB private region at the end of each dynamic disk."

I think that's why I don't like Dynamic Disks for home usage. It prevents
me from using PTEDIT32 for a lot of things... When there is only a single
partition, I think that's when the recipe of changing 42 to 07 works.
But you'll want to go off and Google that, because I don't know all the details
of when that's safe to do.

42 signals that the metadata is in control. If there is more than one partition
on the disk, then obviously the MBR partition table no longer has a valid picture
of the disk contents. It might be reconstituted with TestDisk, but that's a
stretch.

If your disks weren't Dynamic, this would be so much easier.

Paul

On 06/10/2011 20:45, VanguardLH wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>
>> "According to Microsoft, you cannot perform an uninstall of the
>> Windows 8 Developer Preview from a computer."
>> http://preview.tinyurl.com/5vjy3o4
>
> Test software (app or OS) doesn't get installed on a production host.
> It gets installed on a test host or inside a VM. It obviously isn't
> polished enough to be a release version so don't treat it as such.
> Preview versions are meant to target users that will test and report on
> the software, not try to use it as a production host.
>
> So where are your backups? Use a bootable CD with an OS (e.g., Live CD)
> or with utilities that let you delete and format partitions. You could
> omit the formatting step as you could use the bootable CD to delete and
> create partitions and then your bootable rescue CD for your backup to
> restore the backed up image, or use the bootable installation CD for
> Win7 if you want to start from scratch. If you don't backup, you deem
> your data as trivial or reproducible. If you don't backup, now you've
> been burned and it's time to think about it.
>
> If you have backups, there should be a means to recover them from
> scratch (where you have to lay down a fresh OS or replace an image). If
> not and you have data you want to keep, you'll need a bootable CD with
> partitioning utilities. You could then delete the Win8 partition, move
> the old Win7 partition to the end of the hard disk (optionally squeeze
> its size down to remove slack space), mark is NOT active, and you end up
> with 1 partition at the end. Then install a fresh copy of Win7 in the
> unused space at the start of the hard disk. When you boot into the new
> install of Win7, you'll have the old Win7 as a data disk from where you
> can retrieve your data files. When you're done with data retrieval, use
> a partition manager again to delete the old Win7 partition and enlarge
> the tail end of the new Win7 partition.

The problem is that the Win8 partition is set as System disc. Remove
that setting, and all will be easy-peasy.
What do you think of this idea?
Install a Linux OS on a new partition. See if that partition is now the
System disc. If so, delete Win8 partition and keep the Linux.

Ed

On 06/10/2011 21:22, Paul wrote:
> Ed Cryer wrote:
>> Removing an OS is done by two processes;
>> 1. Remove it from the boot menu.
>> 2. Delete or format the partition.
>>
>> I've removed it from the booting menu, but can't do 2 because that
>> partition is currently the System one. It won't let me shrink it,
>> delete it or format it. I could delete the vast majority of files on
>> it, but not the lot.
>> The best method would be to change the System setting to Win7 (C).
>> How do I do that?
>>
>> Win7 (C) Simple, Dynamic, NTFS Healthy(Boot, Page File, Crash Dump)
>> 291 GB
>> Win8 (D) Simple, Dynamic, NTFS Healthy (System) 115 GB
>>
>> Ed
>
> I don't really understand what's going on there and what the
> configuration is.
> Why you can't boot into Windows 7 and delete Windows 8.
>
> At the very least, you should have a backup of the entire disk, so if
> a step turns out to be wrong, you've got options.
>
> You could try using PTEDIT32, and set the "Type" field of the partition
> you want to delete, to "00" from "07". The advantage of that, is you don't
> have to change any of the other fields. Setting it to 00 might, in the
> case of Windows, cause Windows to ignore that partition on the next boot.
> Now, whether Windows will allow you to change the current "C:" partition
> in that way, I don't know. I haven't tried that.
>
> You'd run PTEDIT32 as admin.
>
> You can also do this from a Linux LiveCD. Fdisk has the same
> capabilities as
> PTEDIT32, with a less convenient interface. I like in PTEDIT32, how I
> can just
> edit the numbers, copy the numbers from one row to another and so on.
> But this
> also has a simple command for changing the type field of a primary
> partition.
>
> sudo fdisk /dev/sdb
>
> You could also edit the partition table with a hex editor, by using "dd"
> and copying the MBR into a 512 byte table, make edits, then write it back.
> (There are four 16 byte fields in the MBR, which is the same info that
> PTEDIT32
> displays.)
>
> Note that, changing the partition type, isn't sufficient in all cases.
> I've had software "sniff" a partition, and examine the header portion of
> the
> partition itself, and figure out it's NTFS and mount it. So changing the
> partition type to 0x00 is not a guarantee it can't be detected. I'm hoping
> in this case, that Windows 7 Repair won't ferret out that partition and
> change the field back to 0x07 on you.
>
> *******
>
> The other complicating factor here, is "Dynamic". That has the advantage of
> being able to span a partition onto more than one disk, but it can
> complicate
> other things you do. I don't know now, if a partition table manipulation
> will be enough to do the job. I've never done partition table changes on a
> Dynamic Disk. The thing is, the metadata also contains information on
> the disk structure...
>
> I *never* leave partitions in dynamic mode, because I don't know the
> mechanics
> of dealing with issues on them! Dynamic Disks uses something like 1
> megabyte
> of metadata, up near one end of the disk. As far as I know, this allows
> logical volume management, supports spanning across multiple physical disks
> and the like. A Partition Editor would know how to safely manipulate
> something
> like that, but I'd have a little research to do, before I used the "Paul
> approach"
> on it (hex editor and sticks of dynamite) :-) As far as I know, the
> partitions
> on my Win7 laptop are Basic rather than Dynamic. It's one less thing to
> worry
> about when I'm hacking stuff.
>
> There is a section here on Dynamic disks. It doesn't go into enough detail
> to "get out the hex editor".
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_Disk_Manager
>
> There are recipes out there, to convert a simple dynamic disk back to
> basic,
> but I don't know if they would cover Vista/Win7/Win8. The recipes rely on
> the layout of the data itself, being compatible across both modes, such
> that
> changing the partition table value.
>
> OK, this is what i was looking for.
>
> http://www.win.tue.nl/~aeb/partition...n_types-1.html
>
> "42 Windows 2000 dynamic extended partition marker
>
> If a partition table entry of type 0x42 is present in the legacy partition
> table, then W2K ignores the legacy partition table and uses a proprietary
> partition table and a proprietary partitioning scheme (LDM or DDM). As
> the Microsoft KnowledgeBase writes: Pure dynamic disks (those not
> containing
> any hard-linked partitions) have only a single partition table entry
> (type 42)
> to define the entire disk. Dynamic disks store their volume
> configuration in
> a database located in a 1-MB private region at the end of each dynamic
> disk."
>
> I think that's why I don't like Dynamic Disks for home usage. It prevents
> me from using PTEDIT32 for a lot of things... When there is only a single
> partition, I think that's when the recipe of changing 42 to 07 works.
> But you'll want to go off and Google that, because I don't know all the
> details
> of when that's safe to do.
>
> 42 signals that the metadata is in control. If there is more than one
> partition
> on the disk, then obviously the MBR partition table no longer has a
> valid picture
> of the disk contents. It might be reconstituted with TestDisk, but that's a
> stretch.
>
> If your disks weren't Dynamic, this would be so much easier.
>
> Paul


Paul, thank you. I feel far more enterprising and optimistic than most
people I meet, but you dwarf me. It's marvellous to stand in your shadow.
I very much appreciate what you've done here, and I'm sure you're onto
something that would work. It would take a steady hand though, and a
great deal of patience. But what you've revealed is that it can be done
given enough knowledge and expertise in the matter.

I've worked out a more pragmatic solution. I think it would work but I'd
appreciate your comments.
If I installed a Linux on a new partition, would that become the System
disc and take it off the Win8; leaving the latter fully deletable when
booted into Win7?

Ed