Low Microphone volume level

After searching many forum sites it has become apparent that this is a
problem for a huge number of Win7 users

With the volume level and the db boost at max the microphone barely
registers a signal

This problem has been reported constantly since Win7 was in beta

There are lots of suggestions on these forum sites but none of them solve
the problem except in cases were people have the wrong settings

As the hardware (PC plus mic) work well with other OSs it is must be Win7 as
it occurs with different sound cards

Has anyone seen a solution that actually works?

K

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:16:44 +0100, kreed wrote:

> After searching many forum sites it has become apparent that this is a
> problem for a huge number of Win7 users
>
> With the volume level and the db boost at max the microphone barely
> registers a signal
>
> This problem has been reported constantly since Win7 was in beta
>
> There are lots of suggestions on these forum sites but none of them solve
> the problem except in cases were people have the wrong settings
>
> As the hardware (PC plus mic) work well with other OSs it is must be Win7 as
> it occurs with different sound cards
>
> Has anyone seen a solution that actually works?
>
> K

Are you plugging the microphone into a microphone input or a line-level
input?

Unamplified microphones output a few millivolts, line level expects a
hundred mv or more.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

In message <>, Gene E. Bloch
<not-> writes:
[]
>> As the hardware (PC plus mic) work well with other OSs it is must be Win7 as
>> it occurs with different sound cards
[]
>Are you plugging the microphone into a microphone input or a line-level
>input?
[]
I suspect he isn't using a different input under 7 to that he is using
with "other OSs" (-:.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I am dyslexic Borg. Prepare to have your arse laminated. (from an undergrad at
Bristol Uni, via Brennig Jones.)

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:16:45 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> In message <>, Gene E. Bloch
> <not-> writes:
> []
>>> As the hardware (PC plus mic) work well with other OSs it is must be Win7 as
>>> it occurs with different sound cards
> []
>>Are you plugging the microphone into a microphone input or a line-level
>>input?
> []
> I suspect he isn't using a different input under 7 to that he is using
> with "other OSs" (-:.

True.

Still, ISTM that maybe he is: it isn't clear that it's the same
computer. He could mean "(the same) PC" plus mic, or "(a new) PC" plus
mic, as I read (or misread) it. However, the mention of several sound
cards does argue against me.

<SPECULATION>
Also, there is a possibility that the input has more than one function,
mic or line, configurable somewhere. I know I have seen outputs referred
to as "earphone or line out" (e.g., on my netbook), but I'm not sure I
believe it literally.
</SPECULATION>

Anyway, if I'm wrong, the OP will surely ignore me :-)

And if he is using a line input, it's certainly no worse than mistakes I
have made...

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

In message <x9dmmynvsk1p$.>, Gene E. Bloch
<not-> writes:
[]
>> I suspect he isn't using a different input under 7 to that he is using
>> with "other OSs" (-:.
>
>True.
>
>Still, ISTM that maybe he is: it isn't clear that it's the same
>computer. He could mean "(the same) PC" plus mic, or "(a new) PC" plus
>mic, as I read (or misread) it. However, the mention of several sound
>cards does argue against me.
>
><SPECULATION>
>Also, there is a possibility that the input has more than one function,
>mic or line, configurable somewhere. I know I have seen outputs referred
>to as "earphone or line out" (e.g., on my netbook), but I'm not sure I
>believe it literally.
></SPECULATION>

Actually, it's more than that, so I withdraw my smart-arsedness: I've
seen connections that can be both input and output (not both at once!),
depending on software. They tend to be self-configuring (i. e. depending
what you plug into them), but this may well only work under the right
OSs (presumably the ones that have drivers).

Earphone or line out I could believe: modern (as in the last couple of
decades or so) earphones tend to be 32 ohms, rather than the 8 ohms of
my youth (i. e. just small speakers, really), so could well work from a
line out socket. (What's more irritating - to me, anyway - is the fact
that netbooks [all I think] and the majority of notebooks don't have a
line _in_, only a microphone in, and that often mono too.)
>
>Anyway, if I'm wrong, the OP will surely ignore me :-)
>
>And if he is using a line input, it's certainly no worse than mistakes I
>have made...
>
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

I am dyslexic Borg. Prepare to have your arse laminated. (from an undergrad at
Bristol Uni, via Brennig Jones.)

On 9/30/2011 5:07 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:16:45 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> In message<>, Gene E. Bloch
>> <not-> writes:
>> []
>>>> As the hardware (PC plus mic) work well with other OSs it is must be Win7 as
>>>> it occurs with different sound cards
>> []
>>> Are you plugging the microphone into a microphone input or a line-level
>>> input?
>> []
>> I suspect he isn't using a different input under 7 to that he is using
>> with "other OSs" (-:.
>
> True.
>
> Still, ISTM that maybe he is: it isn't clear that it's the same
> computer. He could mean "(the same) PC" plus mic, or "(a new) PC" plus
> mic, as I read (or misread) it. However, the mention of several sound
> cards does argue against me.
>
> <SPECULATION>
> Also, there is a possibility that the input has more than one function,
> mic or line, configurable somewhere. I know I have seen outputs referred
> to as "earphone or line out" (e.g., on my netbook), but I'm not sure I
> believe it literally.
> </SPECULATION>
>
> Anyway, if I'm wrong, the OP will surely ignore me :-)
>
> And if he is using a line input, it's certainly no worse than mistakes I
> have made...
>
There is another possibly overlooked variant to the problem.
Seems the old AC 97 standard and the "new" HD standard may have
different connections.
The MBD and case I'm using requires both a BIOS setting and a different
header plug to switch from one to the other. (Same case cable, with two
either or connectors at the MBD end.) I seem to remember that there is a
difference between the standards at the microphone jack that is used for
both. At least that's what RealTeks chip data sheet showed.

> <SPECULATION>
> Also, there is a possibility that the input has more than one function,
> mic or line, configurable somewhere. I know I have seen outputs referred
> to as "earphone or line out" (e.g., on my netbook), but I'm not sure I
> believe it literally.
> </SPECULATION>
>
> Anyway, if I'm wrong, the OP will surely ignore me :-)
>
> And if he is using a line input, it's certainly no worse than mistakes I
> have made...
>
There is another possibly overlooked variant to the problem.
Seems the old AC 97 standard and the "new" HD standard may have
different connections.
The MBD and case I'm using requires both a BIOS setting and a different
header plug to switch from one to the other. (Same case cable, with two
either or connectors at the MBD end.) I seem to remember that there is a
difference between the standards at the microphone jack that is used for
both. At least that's what RealTeks chip data sheet showed.


Techie bit:

Main PC
Intel® X58 / ICH10R Chipset with Intel® Socket 1366 Core™ i7 Processor
Realtek® ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC (7.1 + 2)

So you can have 7.1 sounds and still have 2 channels for communications
All sockets can be configured as input or output and are auto-sensing

The front panel mic socket can be switched in software between High
Definition Audio CODEC and AC97 (makes no difference)

But as I say this is common on other PCs with other sound cards

K

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 22:36:47 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> Actually, it's more than that, so I withdraw my smart-arsedness: I've
> seen connections that can be both input and output (not both at once!),
> depending on software. They tend to be self-configuring (i. e. depending
> what you plug into them), but this may well only work under the right
> OSs (presumably the ones that have drivers).
>
> Earphone or line out I could believe: modern (as in the last couple of
> decades or so) earphones tend to be 32 ohms, rather than the 8 ohms of
> my youth (i. e. just small speakers, really), so could well work from a
> line out socket. (What's more irritating - to me, anyway - is the fact
> that netbooks [all I think] and the majority of notebooks don't have a
> line _in_, only a microphone in, and that often mono too.)

The other thing is that 32 ohms earphone-out fed into a typical 10 KOhm
line-in would work fine, especially if the earphone amp was of good
quality (I mean low distortion).

I got around the lack of line-in & line-out on a laptop recently by
finding in my scrap bin an old USB sound card[1] which had the inputs
and outputs I needed, and more.

[1] It calls itself that, but it's an outboard device, obviously. The
brand is Creative, but it's back in the scrap bin (really, a pile of
stuff that is currently retired but may be useful someday), & I don't
recall the model number.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 17:57:31 -0400, charlie wrote:

> On 9/30/2011 5:07 PM, Gene E. Bloch wrote:
>> On Fri, 30 Sep 2011 21:16:45 +0100, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>> In message<>, Gene E. Bloch
>>> <not-> writes:
>>> []
>>>>> As the hardware (PC plus mic) work well with other OSs it is must be Win7 as
>>>>> it occurs with different sound cards
>>> []
>>>> Are you plugging the microphone into a microphone input or a line-level
>>>> input?
>>> []
>>> I suspect he isn't using a different input under 7 to that he is using
>>> with "other OSs" (-:.
>>
>> True.
>>
>> Still, ISTM that maybe he is: it isn't clear that it's the same
>> computer. He could mean "(the same) PC" plus mic, or "(a new) PC" plus
>> mic, as I read (or misread) it. However, the mention of several sound
>> cards does argue against me.
>>
>> <SPECULATION>
>> Also, there is a possibility that the input has more than one function,
>> mic or line, configurable somewhere. I know I have seen outputs referred
>> to as "earphone or line out" (e.g., on my netbook), but I'm not sure I
>> believe it literally.
>> </SPECULATION>
>>
>> Anyway, if I'm wrong, the OP will surely ignore me :-)
>>
>> And if he is using a line input, it's certainly no worse than mistakes I
>> have made...
>>
> There is another possibly overlooked variant to the problem.
> Seems the old AC 97 standard and the "new" HD standard may have
> different connections.
> The MBD and case I'm using requires both a BIOS setting and a different
> header plug to switch from one to the other. (Same case cable, with two
> either or connectors at the MBD end.) I seem to remember that there is a
> difference between the standards at the microphone jack that is used for
> both. At least that's what RealTeks chip data sheet showed.

Good catch, thanks.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

kreed wrote:
>
>> <SPECULATION>
>> Also, there is a possibility that the input has more than one function,
>> mic or line, configurable somewhere. I know I have seen outputs referred
>> to as "earphone or line out" (e.g., on my netbook), but I'm not sure I
>> believe it literally.
>> </SPECULATION>
>>
>> Anyway, if I'm wrong, the OP will surely ignore me :-)
>>
>> And if he is using a line input, it's certainly no worse than mistakes I
>> have made...
>>
> There is another possibly overlooked variant to the problem.
> Seems the old AC 97 standard and the "new" HD standard may have
> different connections.
> The MBD and case I'm using requires both a BIOS setting and a different
> header plug to switch from one to the other. (Same case cable, with two
> either or connectors at the MBD end.) I seem to remember that there is a
> difference between the standards at the microphone jack that is used for
> both. At least that's what RealTeks chip data sheet showed.
>
>
> Techie bit:
>
> Main PC
> Intel® X58 / ICH10R Chipset with Intel® Socket 1366 Core™ i7 Processor
> Realtek® ALC889 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC (7.1 + 2)
>
> So you can have 7.1 sounds and still have 2 channels for communications
> All sockets can be configured as input or output and are auto-sensing
>
> The front panel mic socket can be switched in software between High
> Definition Audio CODEC and AC97 (makes no difference)
>
> But as I say this is common on other PCs with other sound cards
>
> K

The difference between AC97 mode and HDAudio mode for the front
panel, has to do with jack sensing method. Most commodity computer
cases (used in home builds), come with AC97 wiring, and jack sensing
using HDAudio switch closures isn't used. Instead, impedance sensing is used,
and even in "AC97 mode" the sound chip is perfectly capable of popping
up a wizard to ask you what you just plugged in.

There are actually two AC97 2x5 header patterns. The original one, relies
on looping earphone sound back into the box, to make the rear green LineOut
jack work. On HDAudio chips, with BIOS set to "AC97 mode", there are
enough channels on the HDAudio chip, that the loop back path is no longer
needed, so two pins end up as no-connects on the AC97 2x5 header. And then,
the difference between HDAudio in "HDaudio mode" for front panel, and
HDAudio in "AC97 mode", boils down to the handling of the three sense
pins on the header.

*******

As for sound problems, they go back a ways further than Windows 7.
Between user finger problems, poorly designed custom software control panels,
misapplied jack configurations (INF file), sound has been busted in one way
or another for a long time.

In the Linux world, the main reason for things being busted, is the
abundance of standards and obsolete standards. I have several boxes here
with busted sound, thanks to PulseAudio and changes made to accommodate it.
And the attitude of some of the developers, doesn't help matters. At least
with Windows, the architecture side of things isn't an immediate problem.
(Maybe if you're running a recording studio, but not if all you want
to do is listen to tunes.)

Paul