Long term storage

On 8/11/2010 12:09 PM, Antares 531 wrote:
> Why doesn't someone "invent" a really reliable, economically
> practical, always readable backup system? I would think that something
> similar to a USB hub could serve as an interface between any such
> storage medium and all future computers. That is, when a new computer
> would no longer communicate with this "hub" and the backup media, a
> new hub could be purchased that would interface the new computer with
> the very old permanent storage media.

It's called enterprise backup solutions, the media and the readers for
such things are humongously expensive for home users.

> I'm guessing the market for such a device would be humongous!

As would the cost. Check out the prices of enterprise tapes like DLT or LTO.

Yousuf Khan

On 8/11/2010 5:56 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:45:42 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
> <not-> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:34:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:29:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
>>> <not-> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Even today a turntable as we know it is no longer necessary. Old records
>>>> are being read by turntables that don't have a stylus, but a laser optic
>>>> device that tracks the grooves and measures the data - but there are even
>>>> devices[2] that just take a very hi-resolution picture (or several in a
>>>> mosaic) of the platter and extract the data without ever having to rotate
>>>> the record.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've never heard of this before. Can you point me to a link about it,
>>> or source to buy one? Thanks.
>>
>> I'd have to Google too, so I'll leave that up to you.
>
>
> LOL! I would have if I could have figured out what to search on.
>
>
>> As for buying it, I'm under the impression that either one won't fit your
>> budget, unless you're far wealthier than I am :-)
>
>
> I was afraid of that.

OF course it's going to be way out of anyone's budget right now. But
after it's been out for a while the price will drop. For example take a
look at the pocket calculator. I can remember when a basic four
function calculator sold for over $100.00 and now you can pick one up at
a local Wal-Mart for around $5.00 or less and it even does more that the
$100.00 calculator did in the first place!

I could go on and on... like VCR's once were sold for over $1000.00 and
now they're less than $50.00 and do more than it's predecessor. So in
time this technology will become affordable for the average person. I'm
just glad that I won't be the poor sap that pays out the nose for it! :-)


--

Roy Smith
Windows 7 Professional
Thunderbird 3.1.2
Wednesday, August 11, 2010 7:32:56 PM

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:04:23 -0500, Antares 531
<> wrote:

>I think you may have missed my point, here. I was not advocating the
>use of floppies, or any other currently popular storage means. I was
>using the 3.5 inch floppy as an example.
>
>I was suggesting that someone or some company might develop a very
>reliable, very long lived storage means (maybe something that operates
>at the quark level) that could be used for decades or even centuries
>without losing the stored data. This device obviously could not be
>accessed straight forward by the later generation computers, but
>perhaps something like a (again, for example) USB hub might be
>developed as an interface means that could be replaced when the new
>computers needed a different setup to read this storage means. We
>could buy a new hub every few years, but would not have to buy new
>storage means for a long time, and our back-up storage process would
>be a lot less of a problem.

If I understand, you'd like an alien race to visit us and leave behind
something which we are unable to invent by ourselves at this time, but
as time goes on we would continually be able to create the needed
interfaces to that thing which we did not create.

But seriously, technology continually marches on, and by most
accounts, it marches ever faster. So no matter what super duper
storage type someone could invent today, an improved version would
more than likely be right around the corner, making this one obsolete.
So simply creating new interfaces without improving the underlying
technology seems to be a dead end.

Or, more likely, I'm still off on my own tangent.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 19:33:03 -0500, Roy Smith <>
wrote:

> On 8/11/2010 5:56 PM, Ken Blake wrote:
> > On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:45:42 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
> > <not-> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:34:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:29:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
> >>> <not-> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Even today a turntable as we know it is no longer necessary. Old records
> >>>> are being read by turntables that don't have a stylus, but a laser optic
> >>>> device that tracks the grooves and measures the data - but there are even
> >>>> devices[2] that just take a very hi-resolution picture (or several in a
> >>>> mosaic) of the platter and extract the data without ever having to rotate
> >>>> the record.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I've never heard of this before. Can you point me to a link about it,
> >>> or source to buy one? Thanks.
> >>
> >> I'd have to Google too, so I'll leave that up to you.
> >
> >
> > LOL! I would have if I could have figured out what to search on.
> >
> >
> >> As for buying it, I'm under the impression that either one won't fit your
> >> budget, unless you're far wealthier than I am :-)
> >
> >
> > I was afraid of that.
>
> OF course it's going to be way out of anyone's budget right now. But
> after it's been out for a while the price will drop.


Maybe, maybe not. Since very people still own LP records, very people
need or want such a device, and with a tiny market, I would be very
surprised to see the price drop substantially.

No need to buy a player.

When you encounter Voyager I or II you will find that each record is encased
in a protective aluminum jacket.

Instructions are included, in symbolic language, to indicate how the record
is to be played.


"R. C. White" <> wrote in message
news:...
> Hi, Lee.
>
> And where will I buy a player for that disk? In 40,000 years?
>
> A few years ago, I had some trouble just finding a turntable to play vinyl
> LPs and transfer them to my magnetic disk and optical disks. I understand
> that vinyl has regained some popularity recently, but those gold disks may
> be functionally unreadable in 40 years, much less 40,000. :>( Of course,
> I might be dead by then, I suppose.
>
> RC
> --
> R. C. White, CPA
> San Marcos, TX
>
> Microsoft Windows MVP
> Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64
>
> "Lee Rowell" wrote in message
> news:...
>
> You should back up to a 12-inch gold-plated copper disk designed to be
> played by a cartridge and needle at 16 2/3 rpm. Should be good for about
> 40,000 years.
>
>> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-> wrote in message
>> news:1ddb73dia96e1$.18c28evc68ht8$....
>> Well, don't feel too bad - even film photos fade with time.
>> Silver corrodes and dyes lose color...paper oxidizes...acetate film
>> liquefies...
>> Geez - I've been raining on parades today :-)
>> Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
>

Antares 531 <> écrivait
news::

> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
> long time spans?
>
> Gordon

After reading many of the responses here I have a suggestion,
you could burn your data to CDs or DVDs and then take those to some
commercial duplicating facilities to have them PRESS a few copies like they
do for audio and movie disk you buy in stores.

As I understand this, those disks are not burned but press in some ways.

For example: http://www.discmakers.com/

I'm not sure about the technique they use so you should contact them first.

I have audio CDs that are over 20 years old and they still play just fine.

Of course you have to pay but your data might be worth it.

HTH

Doum wrote:

> you could burn your data to CDs or DVDs and then take those to some
> commercial duplicating facilities to have them PRESS a few copies like they
> do for audio and movie disk you buy in stores.
>
> As I understand this, those disks are not burned but press in some ways.
>
> For example: http://www.discmakers.com/

They class short runs as "duplication" which seems to be using CD-R or
DVD-R, for quantities over 1000 they class it as "replication" which
does involve a glass master so they will be pressed. Presumably 1000 is
the break-point where replication becomes cheaper than duplication.

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:56:00 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:45:42 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
> <not-> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:34:34 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:29:44 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
>>> <not-> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Even today a turntable as we know it is no longer necessary. Old records
>>>> are being read by turntables that don't have a stylus, but a laser optic
>>>> device that tracks the grooves and measures the data - but there are even
>>>> devices[2] that just take a very hi-resolution picture (or several in a
>>>> mosaic) of the platter and extract the data without ever having to rotate
>>>> the record.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've never heard of this before. Can you point me to a link about it,
>>> or source to buy one? Thanks.
>>
>> I'd have to Google too, so I'll leave that up to you.
>
>
> LOL! I would have if I could have figured out what to search on.

LOL! Why do you think I didn't Google it myself?

>> As for buying it, I'm under the impression that either one won't fit your
>> budget, unless you're far wealthier than I am :-)
>
>
> I was afraid of that.

(I'm now back from a trip with no newsgroups access...)


--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Here's my take on those instructions:

1. Purchase turntable from Amazon/Intergalactica.
2. After arrival, place record on turntable centered on spindle.
3. Press Play. Note: an atmosphere is required to hear the sounds.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 16:30:18 +0100, Lee Rowell wrote:

> No need to buy a player.
>
> When you encounter Voyager I or II you will find that each record is encased
> in a protective aluminum jacket.
>
> Instructions are included, in symbolic language, to indicate how the record
> is to be played.
>
>
> "R. C. White" <> wrote in message
> news:...
>> Hi, Lee.
>>
>> And where will I buy a player for that disk? In 40,000 years?
>>
>> A few years ago, I had some trouble just finding a turntable to play vinyl
>> LPs and transfer them to my magnetic disk and optical disks. I understand
>> that vinyl has regained some popularity recently, but those gold disks may
>> be functionally unreadable in 40 years, much less 40,000. :>( Of course,
>> I might be dead by then, I suppose.
>>
>> RC
>> --
>> R. C. White, CPA
>> San Marcos, TX
>>
>> Microsoft Windows MVP
>> Windows Live Mail 2010 (15.3.2804.0607) in Win7 Ultimate x64
>>
>> "Lee Rowell" wrote in message
>> news:...
>>
>> You should back up to a 12-inch gold-plated copper disk designed to be
>> played by a cartridge and needle at 16 2/3 rpm. Should be good for about
>> 40,000 years.
>>
>>> "Gene E. Bloch" <not-> wrote in message
>>> news:1ddb73dia96e1$.18c28evc68ht8$....
>>> Well, don't feel too bad - even film photos fade with time.
>>> Silver corrodes and dyes lose color...paper oxidizes...acetate film
>>> liquefies...
>>> Geez - I've been raining on parades today :-)
>>> Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)
>>


--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

R. C. White wrote:
> Hi, Lee.
>
> And where will I buy a player for that disk? In 40,000 years?
>
> A few years ago, I had some trouble just finding a turntable to play
> vinyl LPs and transfer them to my magnetic disk and optical disks. I
> understand that vinyl has regained some popularity recently, but those
> gold disks may be functionally unreadable in 40 years, much less
> 40,000. :>( Of course, I might be dead by then, I suppose.
>
> RC
If you still need a turntable, drive 28 miles north on I35 and go to
Waterloo Records at 6th and Lamar. They have a large number of several
different brands stacked on the floor by the registers. Also a growing
stock of LPs, new and used, but unfortunately for me none of them are
classical. I hope I'm remembering correctly--you do live in San Marcos,
don't you?
Allen