Long term storage

What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
long time spans?

Gordon

"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
news:...
> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
> long time spans?

I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
have a deposit box, she swaps drives.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Seth"
<> wrote:

>
>"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
>news:...
>> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
>> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
>> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
>> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
>> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
>> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
>> long time spans?
>
>I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
>hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
>have a deposit box, she swaps drives.
>
This should work very well for short term storage. U use some USB
Flash drives/Thumb drives, but I am very apprehensive about long term
storage. Will my descendants be able to look at the genealogy files
and photos that I have stored on these USB drives? I would like to
find a storage medium that would let me put all these files onto it
and feel sure that this storage medium could be read and the files
opened some time far into the future. Is there any way to do this?

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:24:51 -0500, Antares 531 wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Seth"
> <> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
>>news:...
>>> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
>>> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
>>> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
>>> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
>>> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
>>> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
>>> long time spans?
>>
>>I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
>>hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
>>have a deposit box, she swaps drives.
>>
> This should work very well for short term storage. U use some USB
> Flash drives/Thumb drives, but I am very apprehensive about long term
> storage. Will my descendants be able to look at the genealogy files
> and photos that I have stored on these USB drives? I would like to
> find a storage medium that would let me put all these files onto it
> and feel sure that this storage medium could be read and the files
> opened some time far into the future. Is there any way to do this?

In the video groups (and probably others that I'm unaware of), people
suggest several things:

1. Writeable optical media are not long-term storage - they are subject to
degeneration.

2. Any media are subject to obsolescence (8-track tapes, anyone?)

3. With media that might fade, it is suggested to recopy them from time to
time. E.g., copy all of your DVDs to new ones every few years.

4. When media are going obsolete, copy them to the latest media. For
instance, copy all of your floppies or old mag-tape backups to hard drives
while you still have a working way to read them. Other examples are MFM
hard drives to IDE, IDE to SATA, and SATA to holographic (just kidding on
that one).

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
news:...
> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
> long time spans?
>
> Gordon

PC stuff fairly rapidly becomes obsolete. DVDs and blurays are fine at the
moment, but untested as far as keeping for 20 years goes. As suggested by
someone else, copy them every three years or so. If you are serious, choose
a company which you think will not go bust, or will be taken over if it goes
dodgy, and pay them to store it, accessible from the Web. Your ISP might be
fine - if you are on on BT broadband, their service (free up to 5 gig and
a fiver for more) might be OK because they might not go bust and are likely
to keep the service going. Also. there is plenty on Wikipedia about the
subject.

I will tell you something extra for free that you might not get from
elsewhere. Don't rely on one method. Flash drives are great at the moment,
and while they will eventually wear out or become obsolete, are extremely
useful for this sort of thing, although not dirt cheap. I read somewhere
that there are cheap crap sticks which pretend to have a huge capacity but
don't, so beware. Also, I think there are two types, one much longer
lasting than the other, so that might need investigating. Anyway, use them
as another method - it should be a doddle to copy them to whatever succeeds
them.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:44:21 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
<not-> wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:24:51 -0500, Antares 531 wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Seth"
> > <> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
> >>news:...
> >>> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
> >>> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
> >>> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
> >>> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
> >>> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
> >>> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
> >>> long time spans?
> >>
> >>I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
> >>hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
> >>have a deposit box, she swaps drives.
> >>
> > This should work very well for short term storage. U use some USB
> > Flash drives/Thumb drives, but I am very apprehensive about long term
> > storage. Will my descendants be able to look at the genealogy files
> > and photos that I have stored on these USB drives? I would like to
> > find a storage medium that would let me put all these files onto it
> > and feel sure that this storage medium could be read and the files
> > opened some time far into the future. Is there any way to do this?
>
> In the video groups (and probably others that I'm unaware of), people
> suggest several things:
>
> 1. Writeable optical media are not long-term storage - they are subject to
> degeneration.
>
> 2. Any media are subject to obsolescence (8-track tapes, anyone?)
>
> 3. With media that might fade, it is suggested to recopy them from time to
> time. E.g., copy all of your DVDs to new ones every few years.
>
> 4. When media are going obsolete, copy them to the latest media. For
> instance, copy all of your floppies or old mag-tape backups to hard drives
> while you still have a working way to read them. Other examples are MFM
> hard drives to IDE, IDE to SATA, and SATA to holographic (just kidding on
> that one).


Those are all good points that I agree with, but I'd add to add a
fifth one (or a modification to number 4).

Even for media not going obsolete, the magnetization doesn't last
forever. So point 4 should also say (or add point 5) that all magnetic
media is subject to fading and should be recopied periodically.

So put that together with points 1 and 3, and essentially all media
should be copied periodically.

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:11:45 -0700, Ken Blake wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:44:21 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
> <not-> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:24:51 -0500, Antares 531 wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Seth"
>>> <> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
>>>>news:...
>>>>> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
>>>>> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
>>>>> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
>>>>> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
>>>>> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
>>>>> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
>>>>> long time spans?
>>>>
>>>>I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
>>>>hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
>>>>have a deposit box, she swaps drives.
>>>>
>>> This should work very well for short term storage. U use some USB
>>> Flash drives/Thumb drives, but I am very apprehensive about long term
>>> storage. Will my descendants be able to look at the genealogy files
>>> and photos that I have stored on these USB drives? I would like to
>>> find a storage medium that would let me put all these files onto it
>>> and feel sure that this storage medium could be read and the files
>>> opened some time far into the future. Is there any way to do this?
>>
>> In the video groups (and probably others that I'm unaware of), people
>> suggest several things:
>>
>> 1. Writeable optical media are not long-term storage - they are subject to
>> degeneration.
>>
>> 2. Any media are subject to obsolescence (8-track tapes, anyone?)
>>
>> 3. With media that might fade, it is suggested to recopy them from time to
>> time. E.g., copy all of your DVDs to new ones every few years.
>>
>> 4. When media are going obsolete, copy them to the latest media. For
>> instance, copy all of your floppies or old mag-tape backups to hard drives
>> while you still have a working way to read them. Other examples are MFM
>> hard drives to IDE, IDE to SATA, and SATA to holographic (just kidding on
>> that one).
>
>
> Those are all good points that I agree with, but I'd add to add a
> fifth one (or a modification to number 4).
>
> Even for media not going obsolete, the magnetization doesn't last
> forever. So point 4 should also say (or add point 5) that all magnetic
> media is subject to fading and should be recopied periodically.
>
> So put that together with points 1 and 3, and essentially all media
> should be copied periodically.

Good point, thanks.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:11:45 -0700, Ken Blake
<> wrote:

>On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:44:21 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
><not-> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:24:51 -0500, Antares 531 wrote:
>>
>> > On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Seth"
>> > <> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
>> >>news:...
>> >>> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
>> >>> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
>> >>> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
>> >>> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
>> >>> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
>> >>> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
>> >>> long time spans?
>> >>
>> >>I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
>> >>hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
>> >>have a deposit box, she swaps drives.
>> >>
>> > This should work very well for short term storage. U use some USB
>> > Flash drives/Thumb drives, but I am very apprehensive about long term
>> > storage. Will my descendants be able to look at the genealogy files
>> > and photos that I have stored on these USB drives? I would like to
>> > find a storage medium that would let me put all these files onto it
>> > and feel sure that this storage medium could be read and the files
>> > opened some time far into the future. Is there any way to do this?
>>
>> In the video groups (and probably others that I'm unaware of), people
>> suggest several things:
>>
>> 1. Writeable optical media are not long-term storage - they are subject to
>> degeneration.
>>
>> 2. Any media are subject to obsolescence (8-track tapes, anyone?)
>>
>> 3. With media that might fade, it is suggested to recopy them from time to
>> time. E.g., copy all of your DVDs to new ones every few years.
>>
>> 4. When media are going obsolete, copy them to the latest media. For
>> instance, copy all of your floppies or old mag-tape backups to hard drives
>> while you still have a working way to read them. Other examples are MFM
>> hard drives to IDE, IDE to SATA, and SATA to holographic (just kidding on
>> that one).
>
>
>Those are all good points that I agree with, but I'd add to add a
>fifth one (or a modification to number 4).
>
>Even for media not going obsolete, the magnetization doesn't last
>forever. So point 4 should also say (or add point 5) that all magnetic
>media is subject to fading and should be recopied periodically.
>
>So put that together with points 1 and 3, and essentially all media
>should be copied periodically.
>
Thanks, Ken, and the others who responded to this post. I guess there
is no way to put things like old family pictures away for future
generations to look at, like they did with those old paper photos in
the days gone by. I wonder why some innovative person or company
hasn't developed some means for such long term digital storage, along
with a reader/interface that could easily be connected to any future
computers. Seems possible???

Gordon

On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 19:40:36 -0500, Antares 531 wrote:

> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 15:11:45 -0700, Ken Blake
> <> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 11:44:21 -0700, "Gene E. Bloch"
>><not-> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:24:51 -0500, Antares 531 wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:13:49 -0400, "Seth"
>>> > <> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >>"Antares 531" <> wrote in message
>>> >>news:...
>>> >>> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
>>> >>> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
>>> >>> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
>>> >>> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
>>> >>> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
>>> >>> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
>>> >>> long time spans?
>>> >>
>>> >>I have 2 laptop hard drives and 1 SATA/USB dock. I back up stuff to the
>>> >>hard drive and the next time my wife is in the vicinity of the bank where we
>>> >>have a deposit box, she swaps drives.
>>> >>
>>> > This should work very well for short term storage. U use some USB
>>> > Flash drives/Thumb drives, but I am very apprehensive about long term
>>> > storage. Will my descendants be able to look at the genealogy files
>>> > and photos that I have stored on these USB drives? I would like to
>>> > find a storage medium that would let me put all these files onto it
>>> > and feel sure that this storage medium could be read and the files
>>> > opened some time far into the future. Is there any way to do this?
>>>
>>> In the video groups (and probably others that I'm unaware of), people
>>> suggest several things:
>>>
>>> 1. Writeable optical media are not long-term storage - they are subject to
>>> degeneration.
>>>
>>> 2. Any media are subject to obsolescence (8-track tapes, anyone?)
>>>
>>> 3. With media that might fade, it is suggested to recopy them from time to
>>> time. E.g., copy all of your DVDs to new ones every few years.
>>>
>>> 4. When media are going obsolete, copy them to the latest media. For
>>> instance, copy all of your floppies or old mag-tape backups to hard drives
>>> while you still have a working way to read them. Other examples are MFM
>>> hard drives to IDE, IDE to SATA, and SATA to holographic (just kidding on
>>> that one).
>>
>>
>>Those are all good points that I agree with, but I'd add to add a
>>fifth one (or a modification to number 4).
>>
>>Even for media not going obsolete, the magnetization doesn't last
>>forever. So point 4 should also say (or add point 5) that all magnetic
>>media is subject to fading and should be recopied periodically.
>>
>>So put that together with points 1 and 3, and essentially all media
>>should be copied periodically.
>>
> Thanks, Ken, and the others who responded to this post. I guess there
> is no way to put things like old family pictures away for future
> generations to look at, like they did with those old paper photos in
> the days gone by. I wonder why some innovative person or company
> hasn't developed some means for such long term digital storage, along
> with a reader/interface that could easily be connected to any future
> computers. Seems possible???
>
> Gordon

Well, don't feel too bad - even film photos fade with time.

Silver corrodes and dyes lose color...paper oxidizes...acetate film
liquefies...

Geez - I've been raining on parades today :-)

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

On 10/08/2010 12:37 PM, Antares 531 wrote:
> What is the best choice for long term storage of computer data files?
> I am running Windows 7 - 64, and have a lot of accounting, tax
> records, genealogy, pictures, etc., files that I would like to make
> back-ups onto some media that I could expect to be able to read on a
> new computer, 10 or more years in the future. Is there any storage
> media similar to the old style CDs that might be reliable for very
> long time spans?
>
> Gordon

I'd say your best bet is external hard drives, formatted to FAT or NTFS
if any of your data files go over 2GB. Having a single large hard drive
store a lot of stuff would make it less likely that you'll have lots of
little optical disks floating around that can get lost.

The a second reason I say that is because neither burned CD's nor DVD's
are good long-term storage, and rewritable versions are even worse. I've
had many issues with reading both CD's and DVD's after a few years. Even
though you've heard that they say CD/DVD's should last hundreds of
years, it's BS, many of them are already deteriorating. At least with a
hard drive there is a lot of error correction built-in.

Yousuf Khan