help no help for shutdown keys

For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.

For XP, it's Win, U, U.

I've just restored to life a Samsung Q310 for a blind friend: the
problem was that one of the pins on the DC input socket had come
unsoldered. (Replacement sockets very cheap, but I didn't even have to
replace it; be careful how you plug and unplug your power leads, as
though this sounds a trivial repair, I had to almost completely
dismantle the laptop to get at it!)

Anyway, I wanted to shut down after testing: mainly because I like to
know for myself (as I find it quicker than mouse), but also since my
blind friend might not know, I wanted to know how to shut down without
using the mouse (touchpad). The machine wasn't online (that's another
matter: it saw my network (simple WEP), but when I tried connecting, it
went away for a few tens of seconds, then said there was a problem; I'd
expected it to prompt me for a key at some point, but it didn't.)

So I asked its help to tell me how to "shut down"; it only showed me the
mouse method. So I asked it for "keyboard shortcuts"; it told me lots of
them, but not that one.

Not impressed!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"What happens if I press this button?" "I wouldn't ..." (pinggg!) "Oh!" "What
happened?" "A sign lit up, saying `please do not press this button
again'!"(s1f2)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.
>
> For XP, it's Win, U, U.

Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
non-default action.

In message <>, Andy
Burns <> writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>> For Windows '9x, it was Win, then U, then enter.
>>
>> For XP, it's Win, U, U.
>
>Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
>action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
>default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
>non-default action.

Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

I suppose that partly explains why help didn't have the answer. Still
not impressed (with the help, on this occasion) though!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

He spoke in sentences that made up paragraphs, with immaculate grammar and
punctuation. - Barry Cryer on Clement Freud 1924-2009, in Radio Times, 25 April
- 1 May 2009.

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> Andy Burns <> writes:
>
>> Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
>> action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
>> default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
>> non-default action.
>
> Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
> more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
> don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
> rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
> machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

W - sWitch user
L - Logoff
O - lOck
R - Restart
S - Sleep
U - shUtdown

but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default,
because the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options, so
the only way to choose the default is know it *is* the default, and use
space.

On 3/26/2012, Andy Burns posted:
> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

>> Andy Burns <> writes:
>>
>>> Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
>>> action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
>>> default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
>>> non-default action.
>>
>> Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
>> more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
>> don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
>> rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
>> machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)

> W - sWitch user
> L - Logoff
> O - lOck
> R - Restart
> S - Sleep
> U - shUtdown

> but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default, because
> the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options, so the only way
> to choose the default is know it *is* the default, and use space.

I don't want to shut down right now, so I'll just ask rather than try
:-)

If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if
it's the default and not displayed?

How about Windows and two right arrows, which brings up the menu? Will
that key then work as you would like?

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

In message <>, Gene E. Bloch
<> writes:
>On 3/26/2012, Andy Burns posted:
>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>>> Andy Burns <> writes:
>>>
>>>> Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
>>>> action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
>>>> default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
>>>> non-default action.
>>>
>>> Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
>>> more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
>>> don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
>>> rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
>>> machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)
>
>> W - sWitch user
>> L - Logoff
>> O - lOck
>> R - Restart
>> S - Sleep
>> U - shUtdown
>
>> but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default,
>>because the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options,
>>so the only way to choose the default is know it *is* the default,
>>and use space.
>
>I don't want to shut down right now, so I'll just ask rather than try
>:-)
>
>If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if
>it's the default and not displayed?

Exactly the question that occurred to me!
>
>How about Windows and two right arrows, which brings up the menu? Will
>that key then work as you would like?
>
(Though that one didn't.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

What's awful about weird views is not the views. It's the intolerance. If
someone wants to worship the Duke of Edinburgh or a pineapple, fine. But don't
kill me if I don't agree. - Tim Rice, Radio Times 15-21 October 2011.

On 3/26/2012, J. P. Gilliver (John) posted:
> In message <>, Gene E. Bloch
> <> writes:
>>On 3/26/2012, Andy Burns posted:
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>>
>>>> Andy Burns <> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Win, tab, tab, tab takes you there, you need to know what the default
>>>>> action (shutdown/restart/logoff/etc) is set to, space will take the
>>>>> default, right arrow then the relevant underlined letter will force a
>>>>> non-default action.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, I'll try to remember that. [Hmm, five keystrokes - at least, six
>>>> more of the time - instead of three; that's progress (-:!] So, if you
>>>> don't _know_ what the default is, is it going to be Win, tab, tab, tab,
>>>> rightarrow, S? (I'm guessing that S would be shut down [I'm not on the 7
>>>> machine ATM] - or have they changed the name to Power Down or similar?)
>>
>>> W - sWitch user
>>> L - Logoff
>>> O - lOck
>>> R - Restart
>>> S - Sleep
>>> U - shUtdown
>>
>>> but it's worse than that, you *have* to know which is the default,
>>> because the default doesn't appear on the submenu of other options, so
>>> the only way to choose the default is know it *is* the default, and use
>>> space.
>>
>>I don't want to shut down right now, so I'll just ask rather than try :-)
>>
>>If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if it's
>> the default and not displayed?

> Exactly the question that occurred to me!
>>
>>How about Windows and two right arrows, which brings up the menu? Will that
>> key then work as you would like?
>>
> (Though that one didn't.)

I got to a good stopping point, so I took the time to do the
experiments.

If only the default is visible and the menu isn't, i.e., one right
arrow, then the shortcut letters have no effect.

When the menu is visible, i.e., two right arrows, the invisible letter
is invisible to the OS as well as to us. That is, only the visible
letters work.

Dumb design, IMO, especially for people with vision troubles.

--
Gene E. Bloch (Stumbling Bloch)

Gene E. Bloch wrote:

> On 3/26/2012, Andy Burns posted:
>
>> W - sWitch user
>> L - Logoff
>> O - lOck
>> R - Restart
>> S - Sleep
>> U - shUtdown
>
> If I press Windows and right arrow, will the above key work even if it's
> the default and not displayed?

No, that's why I said it's worse than that, whichever option is the
default cannot be invoked by its letter, but must be used by the space bar

so if you want to switch user

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, W

*UNLESS* switch user is the default, then you need

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, Space

Andy Burns wrote:

> if you want to switch user
>
> Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, W
>
> *UNLESS* switch user is the default, then you need
>
> Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, RightArrow, Space

Oops

Windows, Tab, Tab, Tab, Space

In message <jkqqt7$6qv$>, Gene E. Bloch
<> writes:
>On 3/26/2012, J. P. Gilliver (John) posted:
[]
>I got to a good stopping point, so I took the time to do the
>experiments.
>
>If only the default is visible and the menu isn't, i.e., one right
>arrow, then the shortcut letters have no effect.

)-:
>
>When the menu is visible, i.e., two right arrows, the invisible letter
>is invisible to the OS as well as to us. That is, only the visible
>letters work.
>
>Dumb design, IMO, especially for people with vision troubles.
>
Definitely agree.

So is there _any_ foolproof way of shutting down from the keyboard if
you don't know what the default is? (Even sighted people might
occasionally need this - say the backlight has failed, or the PC - if a
laptop/netbook - has got itself into a condition where it thinks it's
driving an external monitor. I suppose with each version of Windows
being more tolerant of just being killed, you could do that and probably
get away with it, but still not good.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible,
he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he
is
very probably wrong." - Arthur C. Clarke