Help and Support

I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the last
place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and Support first,
then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best answers faster.
--
Crash

"The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do."
~ B. F. Skinner ~

"Dave "Crash" Dummy" <> wrote in message
news:jj2ii8$e47$...
>I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
> available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the last
> place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and Support first,
> then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best answers faster.
> --
> Crash
>
> "The real question is not whether machines think but whether men do."
> ~ B. F. Skinner ~


How about specifying which Windows Help and Support site you mean. I did a
google search for what you listed and the first site that came up wants $150
for each help issue I wanted to ask.
If you actually mean going to Microsoft.com for help and support then
I'm following your line of thought. However, I have found NGs invaluable for
the many folks who can add a different perspectives to solving problems as
well as the human touch. I unquestionably would miss the opportunity both
help and be helped, question and banter and exchange information.

--
Jan Alter

"Jan Alter" <> wrote in message
news:jj2k6v$o92$...
> "Dave "Crash" Dummy" <> wrote in message
> news:jj2ii8$e47$...
>>I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
>> available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the last
>> place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and Support first,
>> then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best answers faster.
>
> How about specifying which Windows Help and Support site you mean. I did a
> google search for what you listed and the first site that came up wants
> $150 for each help issue I wanted to ask.
> If you actually mean going to Microsoft.com for help and support then
> I'm following your line of thought. However, I have found NGs invaluable
> for the many folks who can add a different perspectives to solving
> problems as well as the human touch. I unquestionably would miss the
> opportunity both help and be helped, question and banter and exchange
> information.

I believe he is referring to the "Help and Support" link that's right off
the Start menu on the Windows 7 machine.

"Seth" <> wrote in message
news:jj2l07$tg1$...
>
> "Jan Alter" <> wrote in message
> news:jj2k6v$o92$...
>> "Dave "Crash" Dummy" <> wrote in message
>> news:jj2ii8$e47$...
>>>I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
>>> available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the last
>>> place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and Support first,
>>> then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best answers faster.
>>
>> How about specifying which Windows Help and Support site you mean. I did
>> a google search for what you listed and the first site that came up wants
>> $150 for each help issue I wanted to ask.
>> If you actually mean going to Microsoft.com for help and support then
>> I'm following your line of thought. However, I have found NGs invaluable
>> for the many folks who can add a different perspectives to solving
>> problems as well as the human touch. I unquestionably would miss the
>> opportunity both help and be helped, question and banter and exchange
>> information.
>
> I believe he is referring to the "Help and Support" link that's right off
> the Start menu on the Windows 7 machine.
>
>
I hadn't considered that right off the bat. There goes that different
perspective.
Thanks,

--
Jan Alter

Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:

> I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
> available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the last
> place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and Support first,
> then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best answers faster.

Many don't bother reading the app or OS included help. Many don't
bother looking in Microsoft's huge support knowledgebase, the vendor's
FAQ page for an app, or visit the app vendor's own forums to research
and then ask a more focused user community. Many don't bother to search
and read the newsgroups before posting. Instead they post knee-jerk
questions while omitting sufficient details for anyone else to begin
diagnosing their problem. Many never go to their public library to read
even one book on the app or OS. Because users can install an OS makes
them believe they have the skills to administer it. Rare few
investigate all the configuration options for a new app. And, as you
note, these same lazy users don't bother to Google or online search on
their topic. They're looking (hoping) for a quick fix without having to
expend any effort themself in finding it. They don't want to spend the
time or don't have the time to go look. Many posters don't even
consider that someone ELSE has to understand what they write and they
don't review their message before submitting it. If you suggest more
than one solution, expect them to focus on only one of them so you'll
have to repeat the others.

There is a new crop of uneducated that lack initiative every year.
It'll never end. In Usenet, you have a choice as to whom you help since
you volunteer your time here. At a help desk, you have to help all who
ask because that's your job.

"VanguardLH" <> wrote in message news:jj2qgj$irv$...
> Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
>
>> I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
>> available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the last
>> place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and Support first,
>> then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best answers faster.
>
> Many don't bother reading the app or OS included help. Many don't
> bother looking in Microsoft's huge support knowledgebase, the vendor's
> FAQ page for an app, or visit the app vendor's own forums to research
> and then ask a more focused user community. Many don't bother to search
> and read the newsgroups before posting. Instead they post knee-jerk
> questions while omitting sufficient details for anyone else to begin
> diagnosing their problem. Many never go to their public library to read
> even one book on the app or OS. Because users can install an OS makes
> them believe they have the skills to administer it. Rare few
> investigate all the configuration options for a new app. And, as you
> note, these same lazy users don't bother to Google or online search on
> their topic. They're looking (hoping) for a quick fix without having to
> expend any effort themself in finding it. They don't want to spend the
> time or don't have the time to go look. Many posters don't even
> consider that someone ELSE has to understand what they write and they
> don't review their message before submitting it. If you suggest more
> than one solution, expect them to focus on only one of them so you'll
> have to repeat the others.
>
> There is a new crop of uneducated that lack initiative every year.
> It'll never end. In Usenet, you have a choice as to whom you help since
> you volunteer your time here. At a help desk, you have to help all who
> ask because that's your job.

I agree with you 100%. Plus, if a person has any knowledge at all, it's almost a lesson in futility calling any kind of
help desk. ISP's (cable or otherwise) have their own "crop of uneducated" manning the phones, usually with a flow chart
of some sort in front of them (computer or hard-copy).
"First, let's reboot."
"OK, did that fix the problem?"
(10 minutes later and still no solution)
"I'm going to connect you with the next level of help." (Which usually means someone who knows how to turn a PC on
without asking someone else where the power button is.)
(30 minutes and many tears of frustration later, you just give up.)

My stepson had a helpdesk job with Comcast a few years back, and knows virtually nothing about PCs. He sure knows his
way around a phone though, I'll give him that :-) He was the one telling me about the flowchart method of
troubleshooting over the phone. The good thing about it is that it gives a nice place to start; the bad thing is if
someone has already tried the first 12 steps before calling, it's a colossal waste of time that could have been used to
actually fix the problem.
Granted, not all desks are like that, but the majority seem to be (if you can understand the thick accent to start
with). I had to call Charter the other day because there was no network available at all. Oh joy, automated help desk.
"Ok, say what your problem is." (No internet)
"Ok, there seems to be an outage in your area. Our technicians are working as hard and fast as they can to resolve the
problem. Is there anything else I can help you with today?" (no)
"OK, goodbye."
--
SC Tom

SC Tom wrote:
>
> "VanguardLH" <> wrote in message
> news:jj2qgj$irv$...
>> Dave "Crash" Dummy wrote:
>>
>>> I find more and more that answers to posted questions are readily
>>> available in Windows Help and Support. This group should be the
>>> last place to look for answers, not the first. Try Help and
>>> Support first, then Google or Bing. You will likely get the best
>>> answers faster.
>>
>> Many don't bother reading the app or OS included help. Many don't
>> bother looking in Microsoft's huge support knowledgebase, the
>> vendor's FAQ page for an app, or visit the app vendor's own forums
>> to research and then ask a more focused user community. Many don't
>> bother to search and read the newsgroups before posting. Instead
>> they post knee-jerk questions while omitting sufficient details for
>> anyone else to begin diagnosing their problem. Many never go to
>> their public library to read even one book on the app or OS.
>> Because users can install an OS makes them believe they have the
>> skills to administer it. Rare few investigate all the
>> configuration options for a new app. And, as you note, these same
>> lazy users don't bother to Google or online search on their topic.
>> They're looking (hoping) for a quick fix without having to expend
>> any effort themself in finding it. They don't want to spend the
>> time or don't have the time to go look. Many posters don't even
>> consider that someone ELSE has to understand what they write and
>> they don't review their message before submitting it. If you
>> suggest more than one solution, expect them to focus on only one of
>> them so you'll have to repeat the others.
>>
>> There is a new crop of uneducated that lack initiative every year.
>> It'll never end. In Usenet, you have a choice as to whom you help
>> since you volunteer your time here. At a help desk, you have to
>> help all who ask because that's your job.
>
> I agree with you 100%. Plus, if a person has any knowledge at all,
> it's almost a lesson in futility calling any kind of help desk. ISP's
> (cable or otherwise) have their own "crop of uneducated" manning the
> phones, usually with a flow chart of some sort in front of them
> (computer or hard-copy). "First, let's reboot." "OK, did that fix the
> problem?" (10 minutes later and still no solution) "I'm going to
> connect you with the next level of help." (Which usually means
> someone who knows how to turn a PC on without asking someone else
> where the power button is.) (30 minutes and many tears of frustration
> later, you just give up.)
>
> My stepson had a helpdesk job with Comcast a few years back, and
> knows virtually nothing about PCs. He sure knows his way around a
> phone though, I'll give him that :-) He was the one telling me about
> the flowchart method of troubleshooting over the phone. The good
> thing about it is that it gives a nice place to start; the bad thing
> is if someone has already tried the first 12 steps before calling,
> it's a colossal waste of time that could have been used to actually
> fix the problem. Granted, not all desks are like that, but the
> majority seem to be (if you can understand the thick accent to start
> with). I had to call Charter the other day because there was no
> network available at all. Oh joy, automated help desk. "Ok, say what
> your problem is." (No internet) "Ok, there seems to be an outage in
> your area. Our technicians are working as hard and fast as they can
> to resolve the problem. Is there anything else I can help you with
> today?" (no) "OK, goodbye."

Usually the second solution (after rebooting) is to format and reinstall
your system. :-)
--
Crash

"Never say you're sorry. It's a sign of weakness."
~ Leroy Jethro Gibbs ~

But...
Most newbies and some oldies (like myself) simply do not know the
correct terminolgy to search for. And when we do (a blind) search we
usually get confsed by the wrong anwers that are out there.

What are friends for anyway!

On 3/5/2012 5:48 PM, BeeJ wrote:
> But...
> Most newbies and some oldies (like myself) simply do not know the
> correct terminolgy to search for. And when we do (a blind) search we
> usually get confsed by the wrong anwers that are out there.
>

Yes, spelling words incorrectly generally causes one to spend an
inordinate amount of time trying to locate the desired answer.

On 3/5/2012 9:11 AM, SC Tom wrote:

> I agree with you 100%. Plus, if a person has any knowledge at all, it's
> almost a lesson in futility calling any kind of help desk. ISP's (cable
> or otherwise) have their own "crop of uneducated" manning the phones,
> usually with a flow chart of some sort in front of them (computer or
> hard-copy).
> "First, let's reboot."
> "OK, did that fix the problem?"
> (10 minutes later and still no solution)
> "I'm going to connect you with the next level of help." (Which usually
> means someone who knows how to turn a PC on without asking someone else
> where the power button is.)
> (30 minutes and many tears of frustration later, you just give up.)

Then this was no joke in this tv show called 'the it growd'. And i was
laughing so hard.


> My stepson had a helpdesk job with Comcast a few years back, and knows
> virtually nothing about PCs. He sure knows his way around a phone
> though, I'll give him that :-) He was the one telling me about the
> flowchart method of troubleshooting over the phone. The good thing about
> it is that it gives a nice place to start; the bad thing is if someone
> has already tried the first 12 steps before calling, it's a colossal
> waste of time that could have been used to actually fix the problem.
> Granted, not all desks are like that, but the majority seem to be (if
> you can understand the thick accent to start with). I had to call
> Charter the other day because there was no network available at all. Oh
> joy, automated help desk.
> "Ok, say what your problem is." (No internet)
> "Ok, there seems to be an outage in your area. Our technicians are
> working as hard and fast as they can to resolve the problem. Is there
> anything else I can help you with today?" (no)
> "OK, goodbye."

So far i was not in need to have to call a helpdesk. Since i use also
Linux, i will hear anyway that they not support that.
In most cases i can fix things myself or relay on a nice chatboard or
something.
In computers you learn thing step by step and most of the time by doing
something wrong.
But one thing is true, never change a running system. (except if the
internet is really off).

--
ACCESS DENIED...

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