EPROM

Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
computers today use EPROM's?
Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.
But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.
As they are used in various applications such as storing BIOS.
I can see where these chips should have numerous responsibilities in
today's market.
Kind of like, how can you manage without them?

On 14/12/2011 11:39 AM, richard wrote:
> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
> computers today use EPROM's?
> Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
> One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.
> But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.
> As they are used in various applications such as storing BIOS.
> I can see where these chips should have numerous responsibilities in
> today's market.
> Kind of like, how can you manage without them?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPROM

Wolf K.

richard <> wrote in
news:bp8b2qsvawf2.8qoh34pm7ps2$.:

> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence
> enlighten me as to which computers today use EPROM's?
> Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
> One person is claiming that no computers today use them at
> all. But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are
> rather common. As they are used in various applications
> such as storing BIOS. I can see where these chips should
> have numerous responsibilities in today's market.
> Kind of like, how can you manage without them?

Looking at 10 different random motherboards @ NewEgg, I see no
EPROMS.

richard wrote:

> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
> computers today use EPROM's?

Virtually none.

EPROMs pre-date EEPROMs and FLASH memory, you need a UV eraser to blank
them before re-writing, they were typically used in prototypes where the
eventual chip used in production would be a PROM or ROM, of course for
some small production runs, EPROMs did get released.

richard wrote:
> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
> computers today use EPROM's?
> Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
> One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.
> But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.
> As they are used in various applications such as storing BIOS.
> I can see where these chips should have numerous responsibilities in
> today's market.
> Kind of like, how can you manage without them?

EPROMs were made obsolete by EEPROMs, due to the ability to
field upgrade (Electrically Erase) them. The existence of EEPROMs,
also made it possible to store several types of info in the BIOS chip.
Some of the contents of a BIOS chip are shown in the following table.
The middle three, require erasing the chip on a moment's notice.

Boot block (useful, if main BIOS block is "bricked")
Main BIOS code (upgradeable by end user)
DMI (potentially updated during POST)
ESCD (potentially updated during POST)
Microcode cache segment (updated when new processor detected)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop...ment_Interface

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESCD

Modern EEPROMs are segmented, so you can erase only a portion of
it and reprogram it.

The main BIOS code, may even include a subroutine which knows how
to re-program the chip. To flash the entire chip safely, they can
"shadow" the BIOS in RAM, while the various parts of the chip are
updated. But since the chip is split into segments, just particular
segments can be programmed as well.

I programmed the microcode on my 440BX based motherboard, about
ten years ago, so I've actually done one of those. The microcode
cache concept, doesn't exist on all brands of BIOS designs.

Another change, is the package they come in. My most recent
motherboard, uses a "serial EEPROM" in an 8 pin DIP. This
is quite a bit smaller than the previous generations of parallel
interface devices. Example of the package type, here.

http://www.c-stamp.com/images/CS450000.jpg

At one time, serial EEPROMs had a tiny capacity, but now they have
large enough internal capacities, to take the place of the
bigger packaged parts. A nuisance aspect of them, is the manufacturers
have taken to soldering them to the motherboard, which makes buying a
replacement, a nuisance. The generations before the present time,
had a socket for the chip, so it could be removed for maintenance.
(Maintenance being, buying a programmed chip from an Internet vendor,
if the current BIOS chip is "bricked" or accidentally erased without
being properly re-programmed).

Paul

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:25:09 -0500, Paul wrote:

> richard wrote:
>> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
>> computers today use EPROM's?
>> Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
>> One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.
>> But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.
>> As they are used in various applications such as storing BIOS.
>> I can see where these chips should have numerous responsibilities in
>> today's market.
>> Kind of like, how can you manage without them?
>
> EPROMs were made obsolete by EEPROMs, due to the ability to
> field upgrade (Electrically Erase) them. The existence of EEPROMs,
> also made it possible to store several types of info in the BIOS chip.
> Some of the contents of a BIOS chip are shown in the following table.
> The middle three, require erasing the chip on a moment's notice.
>
> Boot block (useful, if main BIOS block is "bricked")
> Main BIOS code (upgradeable by end user)
> DMI (potentially updated during POST)
> ESCD (potentially updated during POST)
> Microcode cache segment (updated when new processor detected)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop...ment_Interface
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ESCD
>
> Modern EEPROMs are segmented, so you can erase only a portion of
> it and reprogram it.
>
> The main BIOS code, may even include a subroutine which knows how
> to re-program the chip. To flash the entire chip safely, they can
> "shadow" the BIOS in RAM, while the various parts of the chip are
> updated. But since the chip is split into segments, just particular
> segments can be programmed as well.
>
> I programmed the microcode on my 440BX based motherboard, about
> ten years ago, so I've actually done one of those. The microcode
> cache concept, doesn't exist on all brands of BIOS designs.
>
> Another change, is the package they come in. My most recent
> motherboard, uses a "serial EEPROM" in an 8 pin DIP. This
> is quite a bit smaller than the previous generations of parallel
> interface devices. Example of the package type, here.
>
> http://www.c-stamp.com/images/CS450000.jpg
>
> At one time, serial EEPROMs had a tiny capacity, but now they have
> large enough internal capacities, to take the place of the
> bigger packaged parts. A nuisance aspect of them, is the manufacturers
> have taken to soldering them to the motherboard, which makes buying a
> replacement, a nuisance. The generations before the present time,
> had a socket for the chip, so it could be removed for maintenance.
> (Maintenance being, buying a programmed chip from an Internet vendor,
> if the current BIOS chip is "bricked" or accidentally erased without
> being properly re-programmed).
>
> Paul

Thanks for the information.
Perhaps I should have said EEPROM to begin with.

richard wrote:

>Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
>computers today use EPROM's?

None.

If anything its an EEPROM [Electronically Erasable Programmable Read
Only Memory]

--

"I don't like to discriminate against terrorists based on nationality.
If you declare war on the United States and you want to kill us,
We're going to kill you first, period."

October 19, 2011 - Ali Soufan (Colbert Report)

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:39:47 -0500, richard <>
wrote:

>Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
>computers today use EPROM's?

About a dozen people 'of proper knowledge' already did school you,
bullis.

>Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
>One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.

One person? Try about a dozen.

>But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.

No, they aren't.

>As they are used in various applications such as storing BIOS.
>I can see where these chips should have numerous responsibilities in
>today's market.
>Kind of like, how can you manage without them?

You also claimed EPROM's lose their data when power is lost, which is
also incorrect.

How many people need to tell you that you're wrong?
--
To reply via e-mail, remove The Obvious and .invalid from my e-mail address.

Evan Platt wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:39:47 -0500, richard <>
> wrote:
>
>> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to which
>> computers today use EPROM's?
>
> About a dozen people 'of proper knowledge' already did school you,
> bullis.
>
>> Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
>> One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.
>
> One person? Try about a dozen.
>
>> But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.
>
> No, they aren't.
>
Not common, but still in use, depending on your defnition of computer.
I'm sitting here looking at one.

The Psion II and 3 series personal organisers from the late '80s/ early
'90s used (Massive for the time up to 8 Megabyte) EPROMs for data
storage, and Psion sold a special "formatter" for them, which is
basically a UV tube in a box.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 15/12/2011 09:49, John Williamson wrote:
> Evan Platt wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 11:39:47 -0500, richard <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone of proper knowledge and intelligence enlighten me as to
>>> which
>>> computers today use EPROM's?
>>
>> About a dozen people 'of proper knowledge' already did school you,
>> bullis.
>>
>>> Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory.
>>> One person is claiming that no computers today use them at all.
>>
>> One person? Try about a dozen.
>>
>>> But from what I gather from some research, EPROM's are rather common.
>>
>> No, they aren't.
>>
> Not common, but still in use, depending on your defnition of computer.
> I'm sitting here looking at one.
>
> The Psion II and 3 series personal organisers from the late '80s/ early
> '90s used (Massive for the time up to 8 Megabyte) EPROMs for data
> storage, and Psion sold a special "formatter" for them, which is
> basically a UV tube in a box.
>
Or you could just leave them on a sunny windowsill ;-)