Another W7 newbie networking problem

Ok, I finally got a new computer with W7 Prof. It's taking a little
getting used to it. But I am having one networking problem. I have
2 XP PCs and the new W7p PC on a DSL router. I would like to be
able to see the entire file structure of the W7 PC from either XP
PC. When I call up "My Network Places" on the XP, I do see 2
entries in the list. One is "c on W7" and the other is "users on
W7" W7 is the name I'll use here for the W7 PC ... it's actually
the real name of the PC. If I go to "users on W7" it works good.
But when I go to "c on W7" on the XP box, a window pops saying that
I don't have permission. When I check the sharing on the W7 box it
says c is shared. I know Windows, in the XP days, doesn't like you
to share the entire c drive, but in XP it would let you, after some
complaining. I am behind a hardware firewall, so I don't think this
is as bad as XP says and after all, I am trying to build the W7
system, which involves transferring tons of files from the XP boxes.
Any idea what I am doing wrong here?
Thanks.

On 21/07/2011 13:57, Art Todesco wrote:
> Ok, I finally got a new computer with W7 Prof. It's taking a little
> getting used to it. But I am having one networking problem. I have 2 XP
> PCs and the new W7p PC on a DSL router. I would like to be able to see
> the entire file structure of the W7 PC from either XP PC. When I call up
> "My Network Places" on the XP, I do see 2 entries in the list. One is "c
> on W7" and the other is "users on W7" W7 is the name I'll use here for
> the W7 PC ... it's actually the real name of the PC. If I go to "users
> on W7" it works good. But when I go to "c on W7" on the XP box, a window
> pops saying that I don't have permission. When I check the sharing on
> the W7 box it says c is shared. I know Windows, in the XP days, doesn't
> like you to share the entire c drive, but in XP it would let you, after
> some complaining. I am behind a hardware firewall, so I don't think this
> is as bad as XP says and after all, I am trying to build the W7 system,
> which involves transferring tons of files from the XP boxes. Any idea
> what I am doing wrong here?
> Thanks.

Nothing really except that I don't understand why you would be
transferring "hundreds of files" to the ROOT of C rather than to a Users
folders....

On 7/21/2011 9:09 AM, Gordon wrote:
> On 21/07/2011 13:57, Art Todesco wrote:
>> Ok, I finally got a new computer with W7 Prof. It's taking a little
>> getting used to it. But I am having one networking problem. I have
>> 2 XP
>> PCs and the new W7p PC on a DSL router. I would like to be able to
>> see
>> the entire file structure of the W7 PC from either XP PC. When I
>> call up
>> "My Network Places" on the XP, I do see 2 entries in the list. One
>> is "c
>> on W7" and the other is "users on W7" W7 is the name I'll use here
>> for
>> the W7 PC ... it's actually the real name of the PC. If I go to
>> "users
>> on W7" it works good. But when I go to "c on W7" on the XP box, a
>> window
>> pops saying that I don't have permission. When I check the sharing on
>> the W7 box it says c is shared. I know Windows, in the XP days,
>> doesn't
>> like you to share the entire c drive, but in XP it would let you,
>> after
>> some complaining. I am behind a hardware firewall, so I don't
>> think this
>> is as bad as XP says and after all, I am trying to build the W7
>> system,
>> which involves transferring tons of files from the XP boxes. Any idea
>> what I am doing wrong here?
>> Thanks.
>
> Nothing really except that I don't understand why you would be
> transferring "hundreds of files" to the ROOT of C rather than to a
> Users folders....

You're probably right, however, I guess it's just a control thing.
I grew up in a Unix world where you had access everywhere ... well,
each directory or file could have its access set. However, windows
is so overly complicated and weird when it comes to networking. I
could live with not getting to c, but I would like to know, when I
seem to set the sharing correctly, why it does what it does and not
what I think I am telling it?

On 21/07/2011 14:47, Art Todesco wrote:
> On 7/21/2011 9:09 AM, Gordon wrote:
>> On 21/07/2011 13:57, Art Todesco wrote:
>>> Ok, I finally got a new computer with W7 Prof. It's taking a little
>>> getting used to it. But I am having one networking problem. I have
>>> 2 XP
>>> PCs and the new W7p PC on a DSL router. I would like to be able to
>>> see
>>> the entire file structure of the W7 PC from either XP PC. When I
>>> call up
>>> "My Network Places" on the XP, I do see 2 entries in the list. One
>>> is "c
>>> on W7" and the other is "users on W7" W7 is the name I'll use here
>>> for
>>> the W7 PC ... it's actually the real name of the PC. If I go to
>>> "users
>>> on W7" it works good. But when I go to "c on W7" on the XP box, a
>>> window
>>> pops saying that I don't have permission. When I check the sharing on
>>> the W7 box it says c is shared. I know Windows, in the XP days,
>>> doesn't
>>> like you to share the entire c drive, but in XP it would let you,
>>> after
>>> some complaining. I am behind a hardware firewall, so I don't
>>> think this
>>> is as bad as XP says and after all, I am trying to build the W7
>>> system,
>>> which involves transferring tons of files from the XP boxes. Any idea
>>> what I am doing wrong here?
>>> Thanks.
>>
>> Nothing really except that I don't understand why you would be
>> transferring "hundreds of files" to the ROOT of C rather than to a
>> Users folders....
>
> You're probably right, however, I guess it's just a control thing. I
> grew up in a Unix world where you had access everywhere ... well, each
> directory or file could have its access set. However, windows is so
> overly complicated and weird when it comes to networking. I could live
> with not getting to c, but I would like to know, when I seem to set the
> sharing correctly, why it does what it does and not what I think I am
> telling it?

Maybe because in the Linux/Unix world people generally know what they
are doing, and it's rather easier to recover from an oops? ;-)

Try this:
Right click on the hardrive from windows explorer. Go to properties.
Click on Security. Click edit. Add "everyone" to the group and assign
the permissions you want. Then go to sharing and share the drive as you
would normally. The root of the drive will now be accessible over the
network.

On 7/21/2011 9:55 AM, Gordon wrote:
> On 21/07/2011 14:47, Art Todesco wrote:
>> On 7/21/2011 9:09 AM, Gordon wrote:

>> You're probably right, however, I guess it's just a control thing. I
>> grew up in a Unix world where you had access everywhere ... well, each
>> directory or file could have its access set. However, windows is so
>> overly complicated and weird when it comes to networking. I could live
>> with not getting to c, but I would like to know, when I seem to set the
>> sharing correctly, why it does what it does and not what I think I am
>> telling it?
>
> Maybe because in the Linux/Unix world people generally know what they
> are doing, and it's rather easier to recover from an oops? ;-)
>
> Try this:
> Right click on the hardrive from windows explorer. Go to properties.
> Click on Security. Click edit. Add "everyone" to the group and assign
> the permissions you want. Then go to sharing and share the drive as you
> would normally. The root of the drive will now be accessible over the
> network.
Thanks Gordon, that worked perfectly. It was soooooo easy in U*; every
file or directory had a 3 settings, one for yourself, one for a defined
group and one for the world. In each you could specify read, write
and/or execute for that file/directory. That's simple and elegant.

On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:10:28 -0400, Art Todesco <>
wrote:

>On 7/21/2011 9:55 AM, Gordon wrote:
>>
>> Try this:
>> Right click on the hardrive from windows explorer. Go to properties.
>> Click on Security. Click edit. Add "everyone" to the group and assign
>> the permissions you want. Then go to sharing and share the drive as you
>> would normally. The root of the drive will now be accessible over the
>> network.
>Thanks Gordon, that worked perfectly. It was soooooo easy in U*; every
>file or directory had a 3 settings, one for yourself, one for a defined
>group and one for the world. In each you could specify read, write
>and/or execute for that file/directory. That's simple and elegant.

Simple, elegant, and extremely limited?

--

Char Jackson

Char Jackson wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:10:28 -0400, Art Todesco <>
> wrote:
>
>> On 7/21/2011 9:55 AM, Gordon wrote:
>>> Try this:
>>> Right click on the hardrive from windows explorer. Go to properties.
>>> Click on Security. Click edit. Add "everyone" to the group and assign
>>> the permissions you want. Then go to sharing and share the drive as you
>>> would normally. The root of the drive will now be accessible over the
>>> network.
>> Thanks Gordon, that worked perfectly. It was soooooo easy in U*; every
>> file or directory had a 3 settings, one for yourself, one for a defined
>> group and one for the world. In each you could specify read, write
>> and/or execute for that file/directory. That's simple and elegant.
>
> Simple, elegant, and extremely limited?
>

The nice thing about the Unix model, is the part that most
people are exposed to is "uniform", with a minimum of tricks.
But if you read what actually is available, there are
a few more options than you might normally see.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_permissions

See "Notation of traditional Unix permissions"

That model immediately stuck with me, while whatever
Windows uses, never did. I can't visualize the
Windows model, or explain to someone else how it
works. I guess I'll "need to take a course".

Paul

> That model immediately stuck with me, while whatever
> Windows uses, never did. I can't visualize the
> Windows model, or explain to someone else how it
> works. I guess I'll "need to take a course".
>
> Paul
That's because, probably no one can explain it. Sorry I had to delete
so many quoted lines to make aioe happy.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2011 22:35:24 -0400, Paul <> wrote:

>Char Jackson wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 18:10:28 -0400, Art Todesco <>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 7/21/2011 9:55 AM, Gordon wrote:
>>>> Try this:
>>>> Right click on the hardrive from windows explorer. Go to properties.
>>>> Click on Security. Click edit. Add "everyone" to the group and assign
>>>> the permissions you want. Then go to sharing and share the drive as you
>>>> would normally. The root of the drive will now be accessible over the
>>>> network.
>>> Thanks Gordon, that worked perfectly. It was soooooo easy in U*; every
>>> file or directory had a 3 settings, one for yourself, one for a defined
>>> group and one for the world. In each you could specify read, write
>>> and/or execute for that file/directory. That's simple and elegant.
>>
>> Simple, elegant, and extremely limited?
>>
>
>The nice thing about the Unix model, is the part that most
>people are exposed to is "uniform", with a minimum of tricks.

Sure, that's the "simple and elegant" part.

>But if you read what actually is available, there are
>a few more options than you might normally see.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_permissions
>
> See "Notation of traditional Unix permissions"

I'm aware of those things. What I was objecting to, primarily, was the
concept of three groups, "user, group, and others". (Please correct me
if I'm wrong.) That model may have been fine in the 70's, 80's, and
maybe even into the 90's, but I think it's far too limiting for this
decade.

>That model immediately stuck with me, while whatever
>Windows uses, never did. I can't visualize the
>Windows model, or explain to someone else how it
>works. I guess I'll "need to take a course".

To me, the Unix model was cool until the NTFS model came along. That
was a giant leapfrog that left the Unix model in the dust.

--

Char Jackson